Thank you very much, I will try that and see if it makes any difference, I'm always open to new ideas. But to be honest I think it's just the limitation of the K702 themselves compared to the HD800S.
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What headphone(s) do you own ?
- Thread starter solderdude
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radix
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Well, I'll toss in to the headphone collection.
I use a DX3Pro+, which also feeds my KH750/KH80 desk speakers when I want to make noise. I have EQs for all of them (usually the Harman).
So trying to EQ Roon, Spotify (on mac), and connect 3 different computers (gaming pc, work laptop, personal laptop) has lead to a rather involved wiring mess. I ended up doing two Roon endpoints, one non-EQd for the speakers and one EQd for headphones. Right now, I'm also use a Douk Audio 4-to-1 3.5mm selector (called the Little Bear I think) so I can switch between headphones without re-wiring.
- DCA Aeon Closed RT at my home office
- DT770 (250 ohm) at my work office
- Hifiman Sundara
- ATH-R70x
- Bose QC 35 ii (for travel)
- Sennheiser HD555 (no longer used, maybe 16 years old)
I use a DX3Pro+, which also feeds my KH750/KH80 desk speakers when I want to make noise. I have EQs for all of them (usually the Harman).
So trying to EQ Roon, Spotify (on mac), and connect 3 different computers (gaming pc, work laptop, personal laptop) has lead to a rather involved wiring mess. I ended up doing two Roon endpoints, one non-EQd for the speakers and one EQd for headphones. Right now, I'm also use a Douk Audio 4-to-1 3.5mm selector (called the Little Bear I think) so I can switch between headphones without re-wiring.
My Headphones
HiFi for listening and producing music:
HiFi for listening and producing music:
- HD600 (20+ years old, carefully maintained by me)
- Verum One MkII (got these recently and I have to say I’m gabbing the HD600 less now)
- Tin Audio T2 Pro
- Tin HiFi T4
- AT M40x
- Technics DJ1210
- Jabra W30L
How would you describe the differences between the HD600 and the Verum?
I'm pretty bad at describing sound. It's a different experience for sure. I use a EQ curve for my HD600 but I don't feel the need to do this with the Verum.
I read the post in HF where the owner of the Verum brand discribed all the process of making the One model and was puzzled by how it would sound.
It really looks like a good effort, but never met anyone that owned a pair.... Would like to try them, or at least have someone describe what they ear (in a honest way) with them, without all the "flair" that almost every review available on them is full off...
It really looks like a good effort, but never met anyone that owned a pair.... Would like to try them, or at least have someone describe what they ear (in a honest way) with them, without all the "flair" that almost every review available on them is full off...
This is an update to my previous equipment list. I sold my AudioTechnica M50x. And now have only a Beyerdynamic DT-770. (And also some of the remains of my old and unworking AKG K553 Pro.)
Headphones: Beyerdynamic DT-770 (250 ohm)
Amp: Rolls-Bellari HA543
DAC: Insignia NS-HZ313
EQ: Equalizer APO Configuration Editor (without the Peace UI)
My sound source is still the optical output of my Samsung TV. And most of the music I listen to is still from YouTube videos, fed to my TV via HDMI from a laptop.
The bit depth and sample rate that I use for the laptop's HDMI output to the TV is still 24-bit/48 kHz. I chose this rate rather than 16/44.1 (I previously referred to this as "16/41", which was incorrect) for several reasons. It's the highest rate my TV will accept via the laptop's HDMI connection. It is the standard rate for video content. And it's the rate used by YouTube's Opus audio codec. It's also an easy rate for my inexpensive Best Buy Insignia DAC to handle. And keeps my audio as clean and pure as possible from source to amp.
I chose the Bellari HA543 as my amp because it was one of the least expensive models I could find locally with both RCA and balanced XLR inputs. This allows me to use the amp with both standard consumer line level audio inputs, and also balanced pro audio line level inputs. Which is a handy feature to have if you like to dabble in some music production, or use a mixer for your EQ. It's not a super powerful amp. But has enough to drive both lower impedance headphones, and my higher impedance (and lower sensitivity) 250-ohm DT-770's to more than adequate volumes with no audible distortion.
An EQ (like Equalizer APO) is, imho, also a necessary component in my setup to tame brightness and some rough spots in the DT-770's frequency response. And I've started a topic to discuss some approaches to this here.
Headphones: Beyerdynamic DT-770 (250 ohm)
Amp: Rolls-Bellari HA543
DAC: Insignia NS-HZ313
EQ: Equalizer APO Configuration Editor (without the Peace UI)
My sound source is still the optical output of my Samsung TV. And most of the music I listen to is still from YouTube videos, fed to my TV via HDMI from a laptop.
The bit depth and sample rate that I use for the laptop's HDMI output to the TV is still 24-bit/48 kHz. I chose this rate rather than 16/44.1 (I previously referred to this as "16/41", which was incorrect) for several reasons. It's the highest rate my TV will accept via the laptop's HDMI connection. It is the standard rate for video content. And it's the rate used by YouTube's Opus audio codec. It's also an easy rate for my inexpensive Best Buy Insignia DAC to handle. And keeps my audio as clean and pure as possible from source to amp.
I chose the Bellari HA543 as my amp because it was one of the least expensive models I could find locally with both RCA and balanced XLR inputs. This allows me to use the amp with both standard consumer line level audio inputs, and also balanced pro audio line level inputs. Which is a handy feature to have if you like to dabble in some music production, or use a mixer for your EQ. It's not a super powerful amp. But has enough to drive both lower impedance headphones, and my higher impedance (and lower sensitivity) 250-ohm DT-770's to more than adequate volumes with no audible distortion.
An EQ (like Equalizer APO) is, imho, also a necessary component in my setup to tame brightness and some rough spots in the DT-770's frequency response. And I've started a topic to discuss some approaches to this here.
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Recently got a Bose NC 700 more or less by accident. Anyway, I was surprised how well it is actually built (take note, AKG) and all the control functions and ANC work. Comes with a nice case that doesn't look like a purse.
Sound-wise it's nothing special, reasonably well tuned (read: unoffensive) closed-back headphone.
If you can get this for around ~150€ new I'd reccomend it.
Sound-wise it's nothing special, reasonably well tuned (read: unoffensive) closed-back headphone.
If you can get this for around ~150€ new I'd reccomend it.
CTheCurious
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Talking about journey, I'll list my little headphone collection and then I would love to get an opinion from you guys for my next step.
Right now I own:
Headphones:
Earphones:
As DAC I have a Topping E30 and two amplifiers, Darkvoice 336SE (that I started to tube roll) and a Topping A30 PRO, which I like both.
Now getting back to the journey part, I am the kind of guy that likes to have different things, or headphones in this very case, with their own set of qualities because I always want to try and learn about the different aspects of it.
That said I want to do the next step and pass to some sets of headphones ranging from 350$ to 650$. After this if I feel satisfied I think I will pass to headphones like the Arya or anything on that price range.
I'm doing this because I don't want to rush things and I want to enjoy the ride step by step.
I'm looking for 3 to 4 headphones with these characteristics:
I already have some candidates like the Sundara or Edition XS for the first category, and Grado SR325X for the third, but I want to hear from you guys before moving on.
I listen to pretty much anything, from industrial rock and electronic music to bossa nova or orchestral, that's why I didn't go too deep with characteristics in the different categories. I will post this on another forum too because I want as many opinions as I can get.
Sorry for this too long post and thank you for your attention. (^^)
Right now I own:
Headphones:
- Sennheiser HD560S; (My favorite and daily driver right now)
- AKG K712 PRO; (My first decent headphone)
- Koss Kph30i; (Unfortunately broke on one side, but cheap and good)
- Fostex T50RP. (That I modded but I didn't like that much the sound even when it was new, while now it's a little bit better but I am not satisfied yet)
Earphones:
- Tin Hi-fi T2;
- Blon BL03.
As DAC I have a Topping E30 and two amplifiers, Darkvoice 336SE (that I started to tube roll) and a Topping A30 PRO, which I like both.
Now getting back to the journey part, I am the kind of guy that likes to have different things, or headphones in this very case, with their own set of qualities because I always want to try and learn about the different aspects of it.
That said I want to do the next step and pass to some sets of headphones ranging from 350$ to 650$. After this if I feel satisfied I think I will pass to headphones like the Arya or anything on that price range.
I'm doing this because I don't want to rush things and I want to enjoy the ride step by step.
I'm looking for 3 to 4 headphones with these characteristics:
- An openback headphone that sounds wide and detailed, not in an artificial way, quite critical but not stressful and with good soundstage;
- A closedback headphone with a more intimate and warmer sound, that is able to isolate me well from anything outside, with good base extension;
- An headphone more focused on timbre that makes you listen and enjoy more your music instead the audio quality; (I know this one is quite abstract and personal but I still want to know your opinion)
- Last one an headphone with high impedance, 250Ohm or similar, to pair with the darkvoice. (This one could be literally one of the 3 above so if one has this characteristic I would just go for 3 instead of 4)
I already have some candidates like the Sundara or Edition XS for the first category, and Grado SR325X for the third, but I want to hear from you guys before moving on.
I listen to pretty much anything, from industrial rock and electronic music to bossa nova or orchestral, that's why I didn't go too deep with characteristics in the different categories. I will post this on another forum too because I want as many opinions as I can get.
Sorry for this too long post and thank you for your attention. (^^)
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Angel II
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This Bellari HA543 amplifier has always intrigued me. Is it possible to know the output power at 300 ohms? From what I read about the specs it will handle my Avantone Planar and Austrian Audio Hi-X65 very well. The HD 650 I have some doubts .. but it will not be a problem because I have a V200 and the OTL.
I think you're already there with the HD560s based on my experience of headphones that you can see listed in my sig - it's my favourite headphone. I think it has all the qualities you need - a good starting frequency response that is easily EQ'able, comfortable to wear, good soundstage and imaging which in my experience is based around the physical design of the headphone rather than just it's measured frequency response, and is a low distortion headphone, and fairly good unit to unit variation. So yeah, in my experience, use the Oratory EQ for the HD560s and pay close attention to tuning the bass level to your preference (the Low Shelf at 105Hz), then concentrate on tweaking the "shoutiness" filter (as that's often where this headphone can differ from unit to unit), and also the "airiness" filter which is the High Shelf above 10kHz. I'd be surprised if you can really get that much better than this headphone once you've got it tweaked, I've experimented extensively with my headphones in my sig and that's my current conclusion.
EDIT: (for your open-back headphone request)
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OP
solderdude
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HD800(S) with EQ
something else than HD800(S) good closed headphones are not plentiful.
HD800(S) with EQ
HD800(S) with EQ
CTheCurious
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Thank you for the answer, you have a good point. I am already experimenting with EQ and will go on with it. Right now I'm quiet satisfied with the HD560S, it's an headphone I think it's worth every sinlge cent and even more.
That said, as I told, for me this is kinda the next step, and I want to personally hear the difference and see if it's worth, at least for me, to invest on more pricier headphones. I don't expect all this difference but I want to check it out personally.
CTheCurious
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I get what you mean and if I was just looking for my endgame, or something like that, trying to be efficient on money and time this would have been perfect.
Right now I just want to wait and expand my collection slowly, to enjoy it for the longest time possible and see the difference between many of them.
If I get satisfied by them I think I will then try to get something like the HD800S or maybe the Arya or the LCD-XC.
Thank you. ^^
Yes, definitely experiment with EQ based around initial starting points of measurements and published EQ's, Oratory makes it "easy" by offering those broad customisation filters, as I think it's hard to tune a headphone by ear beyond that resolution. If you know you quite like the Harman Curve then it's an efficient starting point. I was able to reduce harshness in my second HD560s by adding a sharp and fairly small cutting peak filter at 8200Hz which is a little peak that appeared on the measurement & corresponded to some harshness I was hearing, so it's possible to make some positive changes beyond just the customisation filters that Oratory offers, but it's more complicated. Another good starting point is making sure you've not got a lemon sample, I've got 3 units of K702 and 2 units of HD560s, and I appreciate the importance of getting one with good channel matching but that is quite hard to assess in itself but becomes more obvious when you get a good one especially if you have them lined up in front of you to listen to. But really EQ can make massive changes when making small broad changes to those Oratory customisation filters, the customisation filters are either Shelf Filters which by definition cover a broad range of frequencies, so only tweaks required in the 0.5dB resolution range, same really for the other customisation peak filters which have a Q of around 1 to 1.5, again you can be tweaking at a resolution of 0.5dB to notice differences, and balancing out those filters when listening to your test tracks you might be surprised at how much difference just a dB here or there makes especially when all those individual changes synergise/combine with eachother - can really transform a headphone, so I advise you to experiment with EQ so that you realise that headphones just for their stock frequency response without using EQ is an almost futile/wasted endeavour. You could spend an eternity buying & listening to stock headphones without landing on one you really like or perhaps you'd land on one & then still not know what you're missing by not experimenting with EQ on them.
Here is what I can tell you, Angel II. My 250-ohm DT-770 has an efficiency or sensitivity (I can never remember which is which, so I just give both to avoid the confusion) of about 94.5 dB/mW or 100.5 dB/V. Whereas the Senn HD650 is about 100.5 dB/mW or 105 dB/V. These figures are from RAA.
It probably depends on how loud you like to play your music. But this should mean that the HD650 needs a somewhat less powerful amp than my 250 ohm DT-770 needs to reach the same volume. Based on that, I think the HA543 might have sufficient power to drive the HD650. The HD650 is quite a popular headphone with alot of audiophiles, so I would be surprised if the folks at Rolls/Bellari did not do test drive this with the HA543.
Whether you'll like its sound though on the HD650 is another question. Because the HA543 was designed (I think) primarily for accuracy and studio use. And its low impedance (<1 ohm) solid state amp probably stays pretty dang flat, regardless of what you throw at it. So it probably won't give the same sense of warmth that, for example, a higher impedance tube might with certain kinds of headphones, including some Senns.
The bottom line is that if your headphones are on the brighter or shriller side, you are probably gonna hear it with this amp. Although I haven't tried it with a wide variety headphones, based on my experience with the DT-770, I suspect it is very unforgiving in that respect. I wanted something that would be as flat and uncolored as possible though for my gear. So I could tell more easily where the flaws were in different headphones. And it seems to do the job on that.
The amp is not balanced all the way through btw. I think you'd have to shell out a bit more $$ to get a decent balanced amp. It will accept balanced XLR inputs. But it does not have a balanced headphone output. Since I don't have any headphones with balanced cables, this doesn't matter to me.
There is also an "Enhance" feature on the HA543, which seems to boost the bass and treble relative to the mids (see videos below for more opinions on this). But I don't use that because it distorts the frequency response too much imo. And the DT-770 certainly doesn't need any more help in the treble department.
The main draws on the HA543 for me were its XLR inputs, power, flat response, low price, and its fairly durable construction. I was a little disappointed with its rather small size at first. And wish it were a little bigger and heavier, and would stay put a little better. But aside from that, it has done a very good job.
I can't remember if Bellari makes a tube amp for headphones. But I know they have some preamps as well. If you ask for the tech support guy at Rolls, he should be able to answer most of your questions about the Bellari line. I've always found him pretty helpful.
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