Proson Twin 716 Spinorama measurements (CTA-2034)

[Honken]

What a disaster of a speaker.

Ooh I had the fifth one from the right on upper row, a Dynavoice that I can't remember what the model name was. Mine was black though.
I really liked those actually, but it was quite a few years ago now and I was quite young so I can't actually remember what they sounded like. They played loud at least! Would love to see some measurements on those of you ever get the chance

Though I bet the Prosons was a bit more well known, maybe not in a good way of course, but nice too see the measurements of them

I had the fourth one from the left when I was a kid. I remember them playing loud but sounding rather meh. Don't remember how much they cost, but if I could afford them as a kid they must have been cheap.

The Dynavoice Challenger is still being sold, and somehow seems to be popular locally. If you ever get your hands on one of those @Ageve it'd be very interesting to see how a current speaker of theirs measure. They claim that the M-65 hits 25 Hz with its 2x6.5" woofers, which seems dubious. The bass ports makes me think of those of the Børresen X3.

 

[Ageve]

What a disaster of a speaker.

I had the fourth one from the left when I was a kid. I remember them playing loud but sounding rather meh. Don't remember how much they cost, but if I could afford them as a kid they must have been cheap.

I think the price was around 2000-3000 SEK / pair (~180 - 280 USD) for most of them. The very large floorstanders 4000-5000 SEK (~360 - 460 USD), but I’m not sure.

The speaker in this thread, was discounted to just 750 SEK / pair (69 USD) before being discontinued.

I know many of you may think the measurements are way off, and while there may me some variations, they really sound as bad as the measurements show.

Speaking of Dynavoice, I listened to M-85 a number of years ago. I still remember the sound, because of how boomy it was, but some of the later Dynavoice seem to be better (according to Swedish Hi-fi magazines at least…).

edit: I found a measurement of M-85.

Hifi & Musik testar Dynavoice Challenger M-85 | hifi-musik.se

hifi-musik.se

A 10 dB dip at ~500 Hz, and low output up to ~3 kHz. No data below 200Hz, but it looks like it has a boosted bass. In the review, they called it a ”bass sledgehammer”, and gave it a ”hifi rating” of 3/10.

Ljud = sound
Musik = music
Prisvärdhet = Price/performance

 

[DanielT]

Yep. Hard to forget when you live in Sweden though. These are just a few of the speakers they have released over the years:

(It's really just scratching the surface)

View attachment 412632

Speaking of crappy speakers with big woffers that appeal to young men.The Swedish ones are nothing compared to the US. They have the Dominator MX:

 

[Spkrdctr]

@Maiky76 Here's a new in-room measurement with EQ Score (I wrote LW by mistake, and I'm too lazy to change it ):

View attachment 412924


Estimated in-room (without EQ) vs EQ Score at 4m:

View attachment 412917


View attachment 412925


When listening exactly at the mic position in this photo (~15 cm above tweeter axis), it actually sounds much better with EQ.

If you move out of this position, the sound gets worse. You can walk in and out of an acceptable sound behind the sofa. What a weird speaker...

Ageve, I notice a big problem with your listening room. It appears to me that you need at least a 75 inch TV! Ok, I'm joking.........but still.......

 

[Ageve]

Ageve, I notice a big problem with your listening room. It appears to me that you need at least a 75 inch TV! Ok, I'm joking.........but still.......

Haha I know. I need binoculars to watch TV.

This is the Dynavoice M-85 with 50 dB scale btw.

Please note: They kept the name for some reason, but the M-85 available today is completely different (and better, it seems):

Dynavoice Challenger M85

Extramätningar till högtalartestet i nr 12, här av Dynavoice, först frekvens och sedan impedans.

hifi-musik.se

The measurement I posted is for the older version:

 

[Bleib]

And here's the biggest Dynavoice Finale Tower. I've had the DM6 standmount speaker and it's pretty good for its price.

 

[DanielT]

Haha I know. I need binoculars to watch TV.

This is the Dynavoice M-85 with 50 dB scale btw.

View attachment 413425

Please note: They kept the name for some reason, but the M-85 available today is completely different (and better, it seems):

Dynavoice Challenger M85

Extramätningar till högtalartestet i nr 12, här av Dynavoice, först frekvens och sedan impedans.

hifi-musik.se

The measurement I posted is for the older version:

View attachment 413428

I'm guessing that nowadays with all the computer simulation loudspeaker design programs that exist plus with some tests and measurements and some test iterations of new models, it enables better loudspeakers for Dynavoice. Therefore, they have become better.
Dynavoice's most expensive model, Classic CL-26, still costs around $900 so there should be some investment in the development of them.

My guess number 2, a number of decades ago with the speakers you referred to as crap (which they were) the design process was: More or less random speaker drivers that were more or less haphazardly slapped into a couple of boxes and that was it.
Perhaps overly negative on my part. Good was what the speakers you mentioned Ageve in any case rarely. I don't even know if they could be considered ok?

 

[Ageve]

I'm guessing that nowadays with all the computer simulation loudspeaker design programs that exist plus with some tests and measurements and some test iterations of new models, it enables better loudspeakers for Dynavoice. Therefore, they have become better.

Yep, It seems like Dynavoice is ok these days. It would be interesting to measure the DM-6 bookshelf speaker.

System One is owned by the same parent company though, and they still produce speakers like this one:

System One S15B spinorama measurements (CTA-2034)

Here are measurements of the System One S15B bookshelf speaker. The MSRP is ~136 USD / pair (1498 SEK), but it's currently on Black Friday sale, for 898 SEK (~81 USD). System One is a Swedish brand producing inexpensive speakers. A few quotes from the manufacturer, and the online stores...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Reasons for the poor performance:

Incorrect tweeter polarity (on both speakers, brand new, factory sealed).

A single capacitor for the tweeter (bass/mid is playing full-range).

Port tuned too low, and hardly does anything.

Tweeter sensitivity too high.

I was able to improve it a bit, with a real crossover (12 dB / octave) and a shorter port:

 

[HuubFranssen]

Why the *bleep* would you test something that is obviously crap?

 

[AnalogSteph]

IME it tends to be quite instructive, and you're not breaking the bank either...

 

[Ageve]

Why the *bleep* would you test something that is obviously crap?

Someone asked Maiky76 the same thing about developing the EQ for it.

I think it's interesting, and these speakers are kind of "legendary" (for all the wrong reasons) in Sweden.

It's also my first attempt at measuring a floorstanding speaker (a full spin, that is), and testing an old, obscure and really bad sounding speaker is a good way to make sure I'm not posting inaccurate results, that may have a negative effect on sales of a currently available speaker.

As for the small System One-speaker, it was on sale, and I thought it would be interesting to see how a modern speaker from the "same" company performs. I kind of hoped it would be good, or at least acceptable. Unfortunately, it wasn't.

 

[Mnyb]

Someone asked Maiky76 the same thing about developing the EQ for it.

I think it's interesting, and these speakers are kind of "legendary" (for all the wrong reasons) in Sweden.

It's also my first attempt at measuring a floorstanding speaker (a full spin, that is), and testing an old, obscure and really bad sounding speaker is a good way to make sure I'm not posting inaccurate results, that may have a negative effect on sales of a currently available speaker.

As for the small System One-speaker, it was on sale, and I thought it would be interesting to see how a modern speaker from the "same" company performs. I kind of hoped it would be good, or at least acceptable. Unfortunately, it wasn't.

If they still producing speakers they need to be called out for thier lack of QC in the whole chain from dev to production. So they either improve or get outcompeted.

 

[Ageve]

If they still producing speakers they need to be called out for thier lack of QC in the whole chain from dev to production. So they either improve or get outcompeted.

Just checked, and it’s now out of stock. On one of the sites it’s listed as discontinued (They have three online stores).

Maybe they did measurements of their own and confirmed the incorrect tweeter polarity. If that’s the case, it’s a good move.

It could also be that they sold the last stock during the Black Friday sale.

 

[DanielT]

These crap speakers on the used market when there are good ones, at more or less the same price.

Some examples of good speakers, especially for the price:
These Infinity Primus 250 is now with my mother and father. Purchased for $28:

Infinity Primus 250 discussion

Does anyone know about these Infinity Primus 250 floorstanders? There's a set available close to me for $100. Of course I can't find reputable reviews and especially not measurements. I'm sure it would be a healthy upgrade from the Panasonic Thrusters that I had that has a woofer not working...

audiosciencereview.com

Tips on good speakers are given from #15 in the thread when puffreis, who has tested many speakers, shares some of his experiences and results.

Even Erin, when testing the best of the Primus range, was pleasantly surprised at how good they are:

Infinity Primus 360 Speaker Review

Infinity Primus 360 Speaker

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

A pair of 360's were sold this summer for $110 near where my friend lives. Nope he didn't have time to buy them. There are more than him who have the sense to buy quickly when pearls appear.

___

A pair of Wharfedale Diamond 220's for $68 went on sale in my town yesterday and they sold pretty quickly:

 

[Barry_Sound]

Just found out Proson also made speaker cables

Proson 2x3m speaker cable | eBay

The speaker cables have perfect Technical and visual condition. - I can send out them only in the weekends.

www.ebay.com

 

[beagleman]

Here's an in-room measurement at 4m distance (with ERB smoothing) vs the estimated in-room response:

It still surprises me how accurate the estimated in-room response is. It's a close match from 700 Hz and up, but there is a difference between 2-3 kHz, maybe because of the measuring distance? Still quite close though.

View attachment 412704

This curve reminded me of a long gone speaker I used to own, that was tested by Stereophile back in the 90s... The Polk Audio Rta11t. It had an MTM arrangement, and a simple 2 way crossover.
But my ONLY reason for going a bit off topic, is that THEY had almost an identical overall response ON AXIS, but with actual listening, have to be honest, sounded for the most part relatively even and neutral, at least in the area with the dip. Not actually heard in any room I used them in or with Female Vocals..........

So, have to wonder if this is more an artifact of measuring, but the OP says they sound bad, in fact oddly bad??

 

[Ageve]

The red line in my measurement above, was in-room, at 4m distance (compared to the estimated in-room).

As for the Stereophile measurement, It's possible. Unfortunately, the in-room graph is low-res (one of his older reviews).

"Again there is an overall lack of energy in the crossover region, while the peak centered on 12.5kHz noted on the anechoic traces results in a significant boost in this region in-room, noticeable on all axes."

As for the regular measurements:

"Fig.4 Polk RTA 11t, anechoic response on listening axis at 48" (black), and on tweeter axis (red)."

48" (~1.2 meters). Tweeeter axis = Between the midrange drivers. Listening axis = level with the cabinet top.

Polk RTA 11t loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements Regarding measurements, I use a mixture of nearfield, in-room, and quasi-anechoic FFT techniques (using the MLSSA system from DRA Labs) to investigate objective factors that might explain the sound heard. (Stereophile's measuring microphone is a calibrated B&K/DPA 4006.)...

www.stereophile.com

but the OP says they sound bad, in fact oddly bad??

Yep, the sound is very dull and "closed in". I wouldn't say it's oddly bad though. It sounds just like other JWS/Proson/Genexxa speakers I've listened to.

EQ makes it sound better on axis, but as soon as you move up or down (at 4m distance), the dull sound returns.