Pro-ject Optical Box E Review (Phono Stage)

[AudioSceptic]

The NAD P4 or Rega Phono Mini A2D Mk2 are also inexpensive mm phono stages with ADC and USB outputs in addition to analog.

Yes, and these get good subjective reviews. Measurements are much harder to come by.

 

[Harmonie]

You have also some very cheap (in all aspects) turntables with USB output.
I bought one years ago, but never even opened the box

 

[Vasr]

If getting an optical TOSLINK signal into a PC is needed (for recording or further processing), this PCI-E card that I have tried works very well and is cheap

https://www.newegg.com/syba-model-sd-pex63081-pci-express-controller-card/p/N82E16815124135

No additional drivers necessary. Daughter card is not necessary unless using its analog audio out.

One of the few inexpensive cards with optical in. Several brands market this Cmedia based white-labeled card.
Only PCM 2-ch in, no bit streaming of encoded audio due to Windows limitations.

 

[Jake71]

Oops, you're right, I was looking at the SINAD in the review before the gain was tweaked. Good analysis on the rest of the specs on the Pluto as well. I'm not so familiar with the ones you mentioned, if you don't mind helping, what does the headroom work out to for the Mani on a 5V cartridge? Enough to make it the better purchase?

EDIT: Just e-mailed Schiit support asking for the input capacitance for the Mani since its not listed on the specs. They said it's 100pF.

The Schiit Mani got 4 different gain settings, the overload headroom for a 5mV cartridge is as much as 26dB at the lowest gain setting. So it does have some options to play with and adjust for a better fit with a specific cartridge. The reason the headroom matters is when you have scratches/dirt in your record or static causing a loud click, that might force the phono pre-amp into clipping, the clipping itself isn't so bad but once a circuit clips there is a recovery time, so it will have a longer lasting effect on the sound beyond just the click.

Then the Schiit support person is wrong, the Mani phono pre-amp got less than 20pF input capacitance, they didn't add any capacitor on the input, it's all residual.

Of course as I mentioned in my earlier post the whole SINAD/THD+N isn't that important, if you have a SINAD of 70dB then it's already an order of magnitude better than any turntable/cartridge combination.

Edit: don't get me wrong, I realize now this might make me sound like some Schiit worshipper, I'm not, the Mani got plenty of weaknesses, like e.g. the lowest gain is too low for most use cases and the 2nd level gain is a bit too high.. etc. etc.

 

[kaka89]

I have the same device and the price is half of what Amir state.

I see no major fault in this device except the higher noise floor, but like other people said, who cares about noise floor when play vinyl. The distortion is the worst part but given is lower price point I think it is acceptable.

I have a digital only system and this device is perfect.

 

[DuncanTodd]

The idea was to limit the number of boxes.

I was happy with the DAC directly to the amp and hoped with that little box to be able to listen to the turntable just with one more box.

Sadly, it's just an horror.

When I saw the optical option I thought it could be a cool idea to have my sources (CD, TT, PC) connected to my DAC and switch from source to source through it, but I don't like the idea of going from analog to digital and back to analog. Apparently this device also doesn't do that very well so....

 

[renaudrenaud]

When I saw the optical option I thought it could be a cool idea to have my sources (CD, TT, PC) connected to my DAC and switch from source to source through it, but I don't like the idea of going from analog to digital and back to analog. Apparently this device also doesn't do that very well so....

Now I use a Little Bear passive box to switch RCA (phono) / XLR (DAC) input and I like the results.

 

[AudioSceptic]

The Schiit Mani got 4 different gain settings, the overload headroom for a 5mV cartridge is as much as 26dB at the lowest gain setting. So it does have some options to play with and adjust for a better fit with a specific cartridge. The reason the headroom matters is when you have scratches/dirt in your record or static causing a loud click, that might force the phono pre-amp into clipping, the clipping itself isn't so bad but once a circuit clips there is a recovery time, so it will have a longer lasting effect on the sound beyond just the click.

Then the Schiit support person is wrong, the Mani phono pre-amp got less than 20pF input capacitance, they didn't add any capacitor on the input, it's all residual.

Of course as I mentioned in my earlier post the whole SINAD/THD+N isn't that important, if you have a SINAD of 70dB then it's already an order of magnitude better than any turntable/cartridge combination.

Just wondering, but what would an "order of magnitude" be in dB terms? 10 or 20 dB?

 

[AudioSceptic]

I have the same device and the price is half of what Amir state.

I see no major fault in this device except the higher noise floor, but like other people said, who cares about noise floor when play vinyl. The distortion is the worst part but given is lower price point I think it is acceptable.

I have a digital only system and this device is perfect.

Yes, and the E boxes are Pro-Ject's basic (E for economy?) range. I'd like to see a flatter FR though: this will sound bright and bass-light with a neutral cartridge.

 

[Jake71]

Just wondering, but what would an "order of magnitude" be in dB terms? 10 or 20 dB?

An order of magnitude is usually 10 times, so that would be 20dB. It's a good engineering rule of thumb if something is an order of magnitude better then something an order of magnitude worse is unlikely to have any effect. E.g. if you wanted to measure an amplifier with THD+N at -60dB, then you should use an instrument with an order of magnitude better performance to get a reliable result.

 

[ribosradagast]

Interestingly enough, the Project Phono Box DS2 USB which was reviewed here and I think got an 80 SINAD as a phono stage is still missing from the phono stage rankings chart

 

[Rottmannash]

The NAD P4 or Rega Phono Mini A2D Mk2 are also inexpensive mm phono stages with ADC and USB outputs in addition to analog.

Probably a dumb question but here goes: I have an old (2 of them actually) NAD 3140 with what I've read has a fairly good phono stage with MM and MC inputs. Would using the 3140 just as a phono stage be comparable to one of these modern products such as the Mani or the Pluto2?

 

[Willem]

I ditched my old Quad 33 preamplifier with adjustable MM inputs some time ago to be replaced by a modern RME ADI-2 DAC as a preamplifier. I am more than happy that I did, but my family would not let me sell my LP12 turntable, so I bought this. For me, vinyl is such an inferior format compared to good digital sources that I am not particularly concerned, and all the more so since the family has not played a single record since I got this more than a year ago.

 

[Phorize]

Probably a dumb question but here goes: I have an old (2 of them actually) NAD 3140 with what I've read has a fairly good phono stage with MM and MC inputs. Would using the 3140 just as a phono stage be comparable to one of these modern products such as the Mani or the Pluto2?

I had a quick look for measurements for the nad without success. The mani was tested here, whilst not the best performing tested is basically more transparent than your cartridge will be. As for the nad, if age has brought the electrolytics out of spec, it would likely struggle to equal a competently designed new product such as the mani. I’d suggest trying to find measurements. The cost of a service for the nad would likely exceed the cost of a good new phono stage which on balance will give you a known quantity.

 

[Rottmannash]

I had a quick look for measurements for the nad without success. The mani was tested here, whilst not the best performing tested is basically more transparent than your cartridge will be. As for the nad, if age has brought the electrolytics out of spec, it would likely struggle to equal a competently designed new product such as the mani. I’d suggest trying to find measurements. The cost of a service for the nad would likely exceed the cost of a good new phono stage which on balance will give you a known quantity.

Thanks. That's what I thought but wanted brighter minds to chime in. I had a service done on that integrated years ago where they replace some caps but they were more likely the transformer caps? It sounds ok but without anything better to compare I'm certain it's mediocre at best. I just haven't read many great reviews of phono stages so was hesitant to throw more bad money at vinyl, as I only listen occasionally. Digital is the way but I still remember getting high listening to albums back in college and oh my! Those were some heady times...I wonder if that connection is one of the reasons vinyl still persists despite its inherent sonic shortcomings.

 

[SMc]

I had a quick look for measurements for the nad without success.

There's a review that has measurements but not of the phono stage.

http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/nad-3140-291.html

I see (elsewhere) the 3140 has a rumble filter and a mono switch. I'd try it unless its size is too cumbersome.

My LP12 is gathering dust and my NAD P2 remains unopened.

 

[Rottmannash]

There's a review that has measurements but not of the phono stage.

http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/nad-3140-291.html

I see (elsewhere) the 3140 has a rumble filter and a mono switch. I'd try it unless its size is too cumbersome.

My LP12 is gathering dust and my NAD P2 remains unopened.

Just read that review and it seems they were pleased with the phono stage, at least the things they measured. That was the first amp I ever owned and, at the time was well regarded. It sounded good (on all the less than great speakers I had at the time), could play quite loud and had those heavy transformers! Definitely not Class D.

 

[Rottmannash]

There's a review that has measurements but not of the phono stage.

http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/nad-3140-291.html

I see (elsewhere) the 3140 has a rumble filter and a mono switch. I'd try it unless its size is too cumbersome.

My LP12 is gathering dust and my NAD P2 remains unopened.

Thankfully it's way up high on a shelf out of the way but it's very heavy for an integrated amp. I'm running the TT to the NAD phono inputs then outputting to my Freya+ via the tape record outs. Is this the best way to get the signal to the Freya+?

 

[SMc]

Thankfully it's way up high on a shelf out of the way but it's very heavy for an integrated amp. I'm running the TT to the NAD phono inputs then outputting to my Freya+ via the tape record outs. Is this the best way to get the signal to the Freya+?

Should be okay. The alternative is the “main out” which adds noise from the preamp controls but can lower the gain if the Freya can’t handle the fixed output level. Seems unlikely! And you could just bypass the Freya and use the NAD as a preamp if that’s a problem.

 

[SOULKAT]

Has anybody got a Pro-Ject Optical Box E Phono ? i have run out of inputs on my Arcam SA10 amp & I need to add my Denon Tape player and the old Moth turntable with Optical out to my amp so if i do sell my Moth i can flick a switch and add a CD Player as well plus there's a 3.5 audio in & out on it as well The output could run to my PC for direct recording and the output could be used for another Aux DVD TV Ect Plus i could place my Turntable anywhere as i could use a long Optical Toslink cable I Know it was given a bad press with sound quality but has anyone owned or own one with there own thoughts on the matter as at sub £100 new it seems to me to qure my lack of inputs problem & Phono amp ect ect ??