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Help me decide: external phono stage or stylus?

Zapper

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Alignment is another big point to Technics that normally nobody talks about it. The tip in the stylus at 52mm from the back rubber in the removable headshell ... that's all.
The perfect alignment only with a caliper ... Japanese efficiency and simplicity.

But tracking angle alignment requires two adjustments: overhang (forward/backward in headshell) and zenith angle (vertical rotational angle). How does the overhang caliper help with zenith angle? Do you just square the cartridge body in the headshell?

What alignment method does the Technics gauge use (Baerwald, Stevenson, DIN, Loefgren, none of the above)?
 

levimax

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But tracking angle alignment requires two adjustments: overhang (forward/backward in headshell) and zenith angle (vertical rotational angle). How does the overhang caliper help with zenith angle? Do you just square the cartridge body in the headshell?
yes
What alignment method does the Technics gauge use (Baerwald, Stevenson, DIN, Loefgren, none of the above)?
My understanding that it is "none of the above" but close to Stevenson. In my experience it works well and is so much easier. I once ruined a brand new stylus when wrestling with a protractor.
 

Bob from Florida

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This is what I use. Single point alignment, 4 different geometries to choose from (choice based on where you want least distortion), and works with any length arm. The 2 point protractors only work for the calculated geometry at that arm length (usually 9 inch).

IMG_0865.jpeg
 

mike70

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yes

My understanding that it is "none of the above" but close to Stevenson. In my experience it works well and is so much easier. I once ruined a brand new stylus when wrestling with a protractor.

exactly on everything ... cartridge perfectly "square" to the headshell (take care on screws) and the geometry is specifically to Technics, very close to Stevenson


file.php
 

morillon

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This is what I use. Single point alignment, 4 different geometries to choose from (choice based on where you want least distortion), and works with any length arm. The 2 point protractors only work for the calculated geometry at that arm length (usually 9 inch).

View attachment 356350
This device is primarily used to determine the precise installation distance of your arm.. Certainly allows you to adapt comfortable settings... *
but once this distance is known, everything is now available for free to carry out protractations...
free protractors as on my link, calculators, universal protractors allowing you to realize any zero points etc, you can even draw from different existing protractors and their zero points to design your own protractor to your taste etc.

but well it is precisely relative...funny


(as a reminder historically.we valued the stevenson for the short arms like installed at 211mm the baerwal the japanese types have more than 220mm..and the loftgren for the long arms of more than 10.5 inches )

* ps some not so well done are found "not fair", although expensive.
 

levimax

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exactly on everything ... cartridge perfectly "square" to the headshell (take care on screws) and the geometry is specifically to Technics, very close to Stevenson


file.php
In case anyone is wondering why all TT are not like this it is because "setting the overhang and done" only works for "S shaped" tone arm. With straight tone arms you have to use a protractor. This is one of the reasons Technics has stuck with "S shaped" tone arm. The other huge advantage is that you can set up multiple carts in different head shells and swap out carts in seconds. With straight tone arms you need to pull out the protractor which is a tedious and dangerous process. The advantages of a straight tone arm are lighter weight and higher stiffness both because of the shorter length but also because the "head shell coupler" adds both weight and reduces stiffness. In actual practice these issues have been worked around quite successfully by Technics and others but it is something to argue about. :)
 

mike70

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In case anyone is wondering why all TT are not like this it is because "setting the overhang and done" only works for "S shaped" tone arm. With straight tone arms you have to use a protractor. This is one of the reasons Technics has stuck with "S shaped" tone arm. The other huge advantage is that you can set up multiple carts in different head shells and swap out carts in seconds. With straight tone arms you need to pull out the protractor which is a tedious and dangerous process. The advantages of a straight tone arm are lighter weight and higher stiffness both because of the shorter length but also because the "head shell coupler" adds both weight and reduces stiffness. In actual practice these issues have been worked around quite successfully by Technics and others but it is something to argue about. :)

theory and lots of theory ... when Korf made measurements, a rega tonearm wasn't better than some removable headshells
 

Bob from Florida

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This device is primarily used to determine the precise installation distance of your arm.. Certainly allows you to adapt comfortable settings... *
but once this distance is known, everything is now available for free to carry out protractations...
free protractors as on my link, calculators, universal protractors allowing you to realize any zero points etc, you can even draw from different existing protractors and their zero points to design your own protractor to your taste etc.

but well it is precisely relative...funny


(as a reminder historically.we valued the stevenson for the short arms like installed at 211mm the baerwal the japanese types have more than 220mm..and the loftgren for the long arms of more than 10.5 inches )

* ps some not so well done are found "not fair", although expensive.

Yes, it allows you to precisely adjust spindle to axis of rotation - easy with Clearaudio arm bases because they are concentric and adjust that distance to match. The second function of overhang and zenith is accomplished by putting the plumb bob at the end of the measurement arm directly over the center of the arm base. This assures accurate overhang and zenith for each of the 4 geometries provided on the alignment plate. Two are on each side of the alignment plate - you unscrew it from the spindle mount and flip it over for the other two. It works similar to the Oracle disc with the arrow that points at the tonearm axis of rotation.
Tool was tested here - https://www.vinylengine.com/clearaudio-alignment-tool.shtml

It is worth every penny, as I can have a cartridge lined up pretty quick - easily under 15 minutes if I really take my time.
 

morillon

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if your installation distance is rather standard and you do not modify it... you will find a suitable protractor in the list that I have pointed out and will go just as quickly ;-)
(clearaudio could easily provide this kind of thing on fixed arm turntables supplied installed, a protractor multistandart)

I'm a little sorry.. but the interest is essentially for cases where the distance is not known or for arms with a variable base to place them etc...:oops:
 
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Chrispy

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In case anyone is wondering why all TT are not like this it is because "setting the overhang and done" only works for "S shaped" tone arm. With straight tone arms you have to use a protractor. This is one of the reasons Technics has stuck with "S shaped" tone arm. The other huge advantage is that you can set up multiple carts in different head shells and swap out carts in seconds. With straight tone arms you need to pull out the protractor which is a tedious and dangerous process. The advantages of a straight tone arm are lighter weight and higher stiffness both because of the shorter length but also because the "head shell coupler" adds both weight and reduces stiffness. In actual practice these issues have been worked around quite successfully by Technics and others but it is something to argue about. :)

Might be able swap out headshells quickly but you still possibly have to rebalance the arm and adjust arm height.....then again I never found value in swapping headshells/cartridges even though I had another headshell sitting on the side for a long while (or maybe still do).

On the headshell thing someone recently linked this https://korfaudio.com/blog46?fbclid=IwAR2n_vlSx5F_03ObXwcw6rsQQ5OpkMnbnbx-wY1TU5dBaGw0ITPTnhVZk9c
 
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ban25

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Might be able swap out headshells quickly but you still possibly have to rebalance the arm and adjust arm height.....then again I never found value in swapping headshells/cartridges even though I had another headshell sitting on the side for a long while (or maybe still do).

On the headshell thing someone recently linked this https://korfaudio.com/blog46?fbclid=IwAR2n_vlSx5F_03ObXwcw6rsQQ5OpkMnbnbx-wY1TU5dBaGw0ITPTnhVZk9c
Great link, thanks for sharing. I have their ceramic headshell, good stuff:

 

ban25

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Any thoughts on audibility issues in headshells?
I had a Nasotec Swing headshell which had a noticeable 6 dB drop in gain. Replaced it with the Korf. Is the Korf audibly better than the stock Technics headshell? Hard to say, but it is certainly better than the Nasotec and it looks better than both of them....so there you go. :)
 

Chrispy

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I had a Nasotec Swing headshell which had a noticeable 6 dB drop in gain. Replaced it with the Korf. Is the Korf audibly better than the stock Technics headshell? Hard to say, but it is certainly better than the Nasotec and it looks better than both of them....so there you go. :)
How does a headshell affect signal strength?
 

ban25

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How does a headshell affect signal strength?
The Nasotec is designed to pivot left & right to better track the disc. However, this also means it is not rigid (the precise opposite of rigid, in fact), which reduces the signal amplitude as it tracks. It's a cool idea, but sadly flawed.

 

Bob from Florida

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Great link, thanks for sharing. I have their ceramic headshell, good stuff:


I ordered and received an Ortofon LH-8000 wood headshell today based on the Korf headshell testing article. Great looking, now to pick a cartridge to use on it..,,

IMG_2071.jpeg
IMG_2072.jpeg
 

ban25

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No need to guess or speculate about what if any differences TT tweaks make, just go to this tread on this site and download the measurement script, get a test record, and you will know for sure. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-cartridge-response-measurement-script.41148/
As much as I'd love to get a test record, I haven't found a way to get one for less than $200 shipped...so while I've wanted to participate in this project, there is a serious bottleneck.
 

Bob from Florida

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As much as I'd love to get a test record, I haven't found a way to get one for less than $200 shipped...so while I've wanted to participate in this project, there is a serious bottleneck.
I have been looking for a copy of the Clearaudio TRS-1007 - can’t seem to find a copy in the U.S..
 
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