Pro Audio Technology speakers

[unknownuser]

I recently discovered this brand, Paul Hales, the owner seems to be a well known name in the industry but barely any info about his speakers out there since a person having these likely not someone who is a forum poster.
They have measurements up for few speakers, even klippel for one. Namely the SR-28212ai ($10k) and SR-2408iw ($4k) and they look too good on paper, can someone tell if with these designs and waveguides the result are believable? Can you cheat klippel measurement? Thanks in advance
SR-28212ai specs, measurements
Claims to be 22Hz -6dB, also decay times this low with Compression Driver?

SR-2408iw specs, measurements
Can in-wall speakers have this flat FR, DI?

 

[techguypaul]

Their recent demo at CEDIA was excellent.
A simple 2.1 system then a 5.2.2 blew everyone away. It was in stark contrast to what everyone else was demoing systems with dozens of speakers and exotic room correction.

 

[TurtlePaul]

With DSP and a small mid driver this is possible. While this looks good in theory, I would want to see the predicted in-room response. This looks like a constant directivity horn and those can sound bright because the top octaves don't slope down in the in-room response.

 

[G|force]

I never heard of this PAT brand, but I did hear a pair of Hales floor standing 3-way speakers in the 90's. Subjectively speaking they were excellent.
I always wondered what happened to the company.

 

[MarkS]

Yes, Hales has been making speakers since 1989:

Hales System Two loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

Paul Hales: A Passion for Speakers

Audio designers may differ in their specific design approaches, but the best of them have in common a real passion for their craft. I certainly found this when I visited the Hales Design Group factory in Huntington Beach, California. Although still in his early 30s, Paul Hales has been involved...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Haflermichi]

I never heard of this PAT brand, but I did hear a pair of Hales floor standing 3-way speakers in the 90's. Subjectively speaking they were excellent.
I always wondered what happened to the company.

Hales DesignGroup had a few lines in the '90s. The Trancendance and Revelation were two. Paul Hales was big on thick, "inert" front baffles.
I think the Trancendance line used fiber-concrete front baffles while the Revelations made do with MDF.
I have a pair of Revelation Three and the baffle is nearly 4" thick.
He moved away from HiFi into commercial, custom install products.

 

[sweetchaos]

New spin available @pierre

 

[unknownuser]

With DSP and a small mid driver this is possible. While this looks good in theory, I would want to see the predicted in-room response. This looks like a constant directivity horn and those can sound bright because the top octaves don't slope down in the in-room response.

It has to be a DSP magic then since these speakers are active which some might not like this because most of these companies are using their own hardware for it and this can scare away people because if the company goes out you can't load (easily) the settings into any other DSP amp if the original amp dies which is probably unlikely to lose the amp and the campany too
Their claim is that it's a "waveguide" not a horn, they couldn't leave out some marketing of cource: "no trace whatsoever of compression driver harshness"

Speaking of in-room response, their more residential company, Theory has that. SB25 . Many people were blown away by their CEDIA demo, question is how many of them have experience with Alcons, Ascendo, Wisdom etc to safely say that these Pro/Theory speakers are serious contenders. I would love to hear them but in Europe it's probably not easy. And this one is not even that expensive, I believe the sb25 is under $1000, it's a small speaker though. But if you check the Audioholics link if you pick the systems then way cheaper.

 

[techguypaul]

I heard the Ascendo/Trinnov demo at the same CEDIA. Bass was amazing, as it should be with 24 21” subwoofers. Alcons demo also at same CEDIA was very good. The PRO Audio demo was certainly in the same league. Also interesting to note that the PRO audio room was nearly a perfect square temp hotel ball room.

 

[clintolsen]

I still own an entire set of Hales Revelation Three (x2), Center, and Ones (x2) for rear. They are fantastic speakers and finding replacements for them has been hard after 20+ years of ownership. FYI, for those that commented, the Concept series predecessor line used cement baffles, and the shipping costs were exorbitant. So, they switched to 4" thick MDF baffles on Revelation and Transcendence. The Stereophile review on the Revelation Three gives a lot of interesting backstory.

I have looked at Theory (high-end soundbars with compression drivers) as well as the Pro Audio line. I don't see the Theory SB-25 as a persuasive upgrade to my existing setup, but the SR-28212ai (or SR-2408iw w/sub) would be amazing. I heard the 28212 at their showroom earlier this year and was very impressed, even at moderate volume. They were tri-amped with the DLC-1500. I found out from a dealer that the DLCs are repurposed Ashly Audio professional class-D amplifiers with special in-house DSP. My main issue with the 28212 is their sheer size (and cost!). My room is not that big, and they would be dominating. And combining other speakers in their line to make a compelling multi-channel system is difficult if you're not interested in cutting holes in your walls.

You can find interesting Audioholics and other interviews from Hales. He posts most of his latest content on his Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/l-paul-hales-3a0a095/

 

[laserluxxer]

Cool, the SB25 are really an unsual solution but the meassurements look great. I personally think the 3k horizontal directivity dip is preferable in many rooms and the verticals are probably perfect. (crossover seems to be under 1k)
What are you guys opinions on the midrange arrangement on the proaudiotechnology? Is it woth sacrificing the decent vertical directivity of a quasicoaxial for a bit better horizontal plots?
I think theory audio worked around this quit nicely by using a a big 1,4" compression driver with low crossover and 5,5" woofers.

 

[unknownuser]

I still own an entire set of Hales Revelation Three (x2), Center, and Ones (x2) for rear. They are fantastic speakers and finding replacements for them has been hard after 20+ years of ownership. FYI, for those that commented, the Concept series predecessor line used cement baffles, and the shipping costs were exorbitant. So, they switched to 4" thick MDF baffles on Revelation and Transcendence. The Stereophile review on the Revelation Three gives a lot of interesting backstory.

I have looked at Theory (high-end soundbars with compression drivers) as well as the Pro Audio line. I don't see the Theory SB-25 as a persuasive upgrade to my existing setup, but the SR-28212ai (or SR-2408iw w/sub) would be amazing. I heard the 28212 at their showroom earlier this year and was very impressed, even at moderate volume. They were tri-amped with the DLC-1500. I found out from a dealer that the DLCs are repurposed Ashly Audio professional class-D amplifiers with special in-house DSP. My main issue with the 28212 is their sheer size (and cost!). My room is not that big, and they would be dominating. And combining other speakers in their line to make a compelling multi-channel system is difficult if you're not interested in cutting holes in your walls.

You can find interesting Audioholics and other interviews from Hales. He posts most of his latest content on his Linkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/l-paul-hales-3a0a095/

The SR-28212ai still somewhat reasonably priced (in this high-end segment) if it really can go down to the 20s with decent SPL, a good candidate as full range speaker for Dirac ART and you just add an infrasub or 2 for below 30Hz.
But the SR-2408iw is also great for bed layer channels however I wish that the enclosure would be included in the price, I'd assume that more people would wall mount it than in wall. Price wise I wouldn't spend more than 3000 per speaker specially if it's active crossover so you need the DSP as well. Nowadays they are really pushing active speakers for home theaters via AES67/Dante solutions, so the individuals need to also consider passive vs active speaker decision. Interestingly PRO has passive speakers too which are meant for overhead channels.