Prices... am I out of touch?

[Sal1950]

My projection screen is over 10 feet wide and taller than the usual screen.

As usual it's all about trade-offs.
I recently was invited to a member of the local audio clubs home to review some speakers and other things.
He has an incredible room for his HiFi-HT with a absolutely huge screen. I'm pretty sure he said it was 16'x13'
The visual impact was incredible, close to a real theater experience with only the lack of brightness & black levels missing the mark. I'll never have a room like that unless I hit the lotto so I'll won't have to chose.

The current 100" led's weight between 120 and 150 lbs, not really an issue for either wall or stand mounts in just about any home. So room size and distance = X field of view, whatever. LOL My relatively new Samsung 85 has incredible picture quality across the board so I'm happy "for now". LOL

 

[Waxx]

All communists are socialists, by definition. Socialists who advocate for a single-party state are communists. "Socialist Communist" is meaningless word salad.

Actually not. Socialism and Communism are both forms of Marxisme, where the difference is that socialists want a "democraty of the working class" and communism wants a "dictatorship of the working class". In the US they mostly mix both, but it's not the same at all, they both decent from the same origin, but are very different evolutions from that Marxism in the late 19th and early 20st century. But it's true that "socialist communist" is meaningless. It's as meaningless as saying a "capitalist communist" for me.

Socialism is working in Europe, where a lot of the gouverments are made (partly of fully) of socialists. Communism never worked really, with the best example being Cuba (the only one that really survived the time), all the rest ended up in a straight dictatorship where one man or clan rules everything (cfr Venezuela, China, North Korea...), or collapsed to a more democratic regime (most of the former communist Europe) that is based on a mix of kapitalism and socialism (like is the norm in Europe now). The only real communist state that is still present is Cuba, and even that is already (slowly) changing to more freedom for the population.

 

[Sal1950]

Actually not. Socialism and Communism are both forms of Marxisme, where the difference is that socialists want a "democraty of the working class" and communism wants a "dictatorship of the working class".

Socialists and Communists.
No matter how you slice them, they are 2 sides of the same coin.
No Thanks.

 

[BrooklynNick]

Actually not. Socialism and Communism are both forms of Marxisme, where the difference is that socialists want a "democraty of the working class" and communism wants a "dictatorship of the working class".

In The Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engels presented Communism as essentially an improved form of Socialism, not as a new ideology. But we are getting so far off topic, we should probably drop it.

 

[Cogito]

About $25k for a "passible" basic starter (Amp, speakers, source) system sounds about right. I don't know anybody who can't afford such a system. However, no "proper" system can be bought for less than $150k.

 

[bachatero]

About $25k for a "passible" basic starter (Amp, speakers, source) system sounds about right. I don't know anybody who can't afford such a system. However, no "proper" system can be bought for less than $150k.

Are you messing with us?

 

[Cogito]

Are you messing with us?

LOL My core system is built on Emotiva Gen.2 gear.

 

[Mart68]

I've seen it claimed on a forum that if you want the best possible sound from digital you need to spend £10K just on the source components and associated foo.

Sadly some people believe this.

 

[Robin L]

The headphones I use have a combined cost of about $400
The headphones (and IEMs) I don't use have a combined cost of about $400.
The stereo I use (much more than the headphones) has a combined cost of about $400
The stereo (floorstanding Infinity Primus speakers, Sonus Son of Sub powered subwoofer, Yamaha AVR, Topping DAC and Headphone amp that is also used as a preamp/volume control) sounds better than anything via the headphones. Everything but the Topping gear was bought used.
There is also a DAP, it cost $75, the Micro-SD chip for music storage cost about $80, use it rarely these days.
While I can imagine getting more expensive gear, I'm surprised at how good this system sounds. If I were to get more expensive gear, I'd need to move to a larger room to really appreciate it. As it is, the system I'm now using is just about right for where I'm living.
Go figure.

 

[multichannel_guy]

A guy could be very content with a 300k house and not want a 10 million dollar house. Similarly, he could be very content with a 1k rig and not care about a 100k rig.

Content or not? It comes down to your psychological make up.

On a similar note, OCD is a legitimate thing among hifi enthusiasts. Some therapy or treatment for OCD can save some guys lots of dollars in hifi equipment.

 

[Snarfie]

There's an amplifier sitting on my bench that was made in 1977. It looks, sounds and operates as well as it did the day it was made 47 years ago. It needs absolutely nothing in terms of maintenance. The quality of construction puts most "budget HiFi" made today in the shade. It cost £190 in 1977.

Did try to find a modern integrated Amp with the same connectivity an (power) quality as a 24 year old NAD C370 amp. Besides servicing for a few euro the startup circuit a well known problem because of a wrong placed zener diode which affect 3 small capacitors it works after 24 years stille flawlessly. No contest changing it for a modern amp. Used they are around 150 to 300 euro. Updating the startup circuite 3 years ago less than 70,- euro https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-c370-integrated-amplifier-page-3.
What would a new amp with same specification cost today.

 

[Killingbeans]

About $25k for a "passible" basic starter (Amp, speakers, source) system sounds about right. I don't know anybody who can't afford such a system. However, no "proper" system can be bought for less than $150k.

Sorry if this is just a case of Poe's law and the above is simply a joke that went over my head, but...

A system with 2x Genelec 8351B + 2x W371A will "only" set you back roughly $30K and gives you a level of performance that's as close to perfection at you can get with modern technology.

I mean if "proper" just means that it needs to look the part, then sure

 

[JeffS7444]

If I remember correctly, I had expressed the idea that capitalism was inefficient.

How so? When I hear stories of consumer culture in planned economies like USSR's, I get the sense that desirable goods were scarce, much effort was spent in pursuit of them, and some were all but unobtainable without elite status or connections.

 

[rank]

USSR was capitalist under embargo since 1917, what would you have done in their place?
So all the countries were allied against them, hence war economy. So your consumer culture...
Know what I mean.

 

[Petrushka]

In my other thread, people are touting Alien visitors.

 

[Yuhasz01]

I would bet many people here with elaborate systems , expensive or not, listen to music quite bit on their smart phone or computer pad with headphones or earbuds. My iPhone, Apple dongle and cheesy headphones give me great musical enjoyment. I use that rig more than my serious (ie expensive) listening setup in my listening area..

 

[Cogito]

The headphones I use have a combined cost of about $400
The headphones (and IEMs) I don't use have a combined cost of about $400.
The stereo I use (much more than the headphones) has a combined cost of about $400
The stereo (floorstanding Infinity Primus speakers, Sonus Son of Sub powered subwoofer, Yamaha AVR, Topping DAC and Headphone amp that is also used as a preamp/volume control) sounds better than anything via the headphones. Everything but the Topping gear was bought used.
There is also a DAP, it cost $75, the Micro-SD chip for music storage cost about $80, use it rarely these days.
While I can imagine getting more expensive gear, I'm surprised at how good this system sounds. If I were to get more expensive gear, I'd need to move to a larger room to really appreciate it. As it is, the system I'm now using is just about right for where I'm living.
Go figure.

In my primary system, I'm looking at:

Preamp $1,100
Power Amp: $900
DAC: $400
Speakers: $5,000
Subwoofer: $750
Streamer: $500
Headphones and DAC/Amp $700
Assorted cables $150
Rack: $500

This totals: $10,000 I would consider my setup as a high-performance BUDGET system. I put most of my budget where it counts the most, the speakers.

Sorry if this is just a case of Poe's law and the above is simply a joke that went over my head, but...

A system with 2x Genelec 8351B + 2x W371A will "only" set you back roughly $30K and gives you a level of performance that's as close to perfection at you can get with modern technology.

I mean if "proper" just means that it needs to look the part, then sure

Just to be clear, it was "Tongue in Cheak" sarcasm. My current system cost me $10,000 +/- and in my experience, it is a fine sounding system. Nothing expensive nor exotic, just common sense "Bang for the Buck".

 

[mhardy6647]

In my other thread, people are touting Alien visitors.

We should be studying their economics.

 

[JeffS7444]

USSR was capitalist under embargo since 1917, what would you have done in their place?
So all the countries were allied against them, hence war economy. So your consumer culture...
Know what I mean.

Nope, can't say that I do: I thought private enterprise was illegal.

 

[tomtoo]

Edit preamble - yes, I know, there is actually, genuinely cheap entry-level gear, and it is good, very very good even, as low as ~$200 and under per piece. Yes, that is a good price, that makes sense to me. The disconnect for me, explained further below, is when more expensive things get called cheap, because to me $500 for an amp for example or a single speaker or a pair of headphones is already getting excessive for what it is, in my opinion at least, whereas it seems like many in this hobby, especially reviewers, still call that "budget". For me, that doesn't parse, I'd even dare to say it seems deranged, in a "who is this even for? How much of a spendthrift do you have to be for this to be budget?" sense. I think this all comes off more aggressive or accusatory than I'd like but I mean no offense, I just don't know how else to put voice to my thoughts.

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The more I read around about hi-fi the more baffled and bewildered I become on the price tags of equipment... I see $3,000 speakers, $1,000 amplifiers and $500 headphones being hailed as "low price" "great value" "a steal" "budget" "affordable" etc... to me none of those are anywhere even close to being any of those things! Even $200 is already an awful lot for headphones by my reckoning. Just yesterday I saw a review in a magazine magazine calling itself "affordable audio" for a $680 amplifier, which dared to call it "affordable", and gave it their "best of the year" award... no, sir, that is not "affordable", that is half a month's rent! I'd feel like I got punked if I subscribed to that magazine and then got that nonsense in the mail for it!

Just crazy to me not only how high the price tags can reach (way higher than anything I've mentioned so far), but how expensive it goes before audiophiles stop calling it "cheap". There's a massive disconnect for me whenever I see someone (on a forum, in a review, in a video, in a magazine, whatever) talking about something that for me is unthinkably expensive as if it's some kind of great deal, usually touting something along the lines of "you get what you pay for" just to rub it in. I don't get it... and, I'll admit, it's frustrating. I don't see the value in any of it. Am I alone?

You dont get it ? Its easy. The more expensive the better it sounds. The complete market and media support is build on this since at least 40 years. Does it realy sound better? If you get the imagine it does the magic happens it does. Its mostly expensiv placebo. But never forget placebo works, at least some times.