Prices... am I out of touch?

[GreeneDeux]

Edit preamble - yes, I know, there is actually, genuinely cheap entry-level gear, and it is good, very very good even, as low as ~$200 and under per piece. Yes, that is a good price, that makes sense to me. The disconnect for me, explained further below, is when more expensive things get called cheap, because to me $500 for an amp for example or a single speaker or a pair of headphones is already getting excessive for what it is, in my opinion at least, whereas it seems like many in this hobby, especially reviewers, still call that "budget". For me, that doesn't parse, I'd even dare to say it seems deranged, in a "who is this even for? How much of a spendthrift do you have to be for this to be budget?" sense. I think this all comes off more aggressive or accusatory than I'd like but I mean no offense, I just don't know how else to put voice to my thoughts.

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The more I read around about hi-fi the more baffled and bewildered I become on the price tags of equipment... I see $3,000 speakers, $1,000 amplifiers and $500 headphones being hailed as "low price" "great value" "a steal" "budget" "affordable" etc... to me none of those are anywhere even close to being any of those things! Even $200 is already an awful lot for headphones by my reckoning. Just yesterday I saw a review in a magazine magazine calling itself "affordable audio" for a $680 amplifier, which dared to call it "affordable", and gave it their "best of the year" award... no, sir, that is not "affordable", that is half a month's rent! I'd feel like I got punked if I subscribed to that magazine and then got that nonsense in the mail for it!

Just crazy to me not only how high the price tags can reach (way higher than anything I've mentioned so far), but how expensive it goes before audiophiles stop calling it "cheap". There's a massive disconnect for me whenever I see someone (on a forum, in a review, in a video, in a magazine, whatever) talking about something that for me is unthinkably expensive as if it's some kind of great deal, usually touting something along the lines of "you get what you pay for" just to rub it in. I don't get it... and, I'll admit, it's frustrating. I don't see the value in any of it. Am I alone?

 

[Somafunk]

I’ll give you a generous 2/10 for the rant as everything you mention is very affordable, and I say this as someone with a yearly income under £12000

 

[RayDunzl]

Find a new hobby.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The more I read around about hi-fi the more baffled and bewildered I become on the price tags of equipment... I see $3,000 speakers, $1,000 amplifiers and $500 headphones being hailed as "low price" "great value" "a steal" "budget" "affordable" etc... to me none of those are anywhere even close to being any of those things! Even $200 is already an awful lot for headphones by my reckoning. Just yesterday I saw a review in a magazine magazine calling itself "affordable audio" for a $680 amplifier, which dared to call it "affordable", and gave it their "best of the year" award... no, sir, that is not "affordable", that is half a month's rent! I'd feel like I got punked if I subscribed to that magazine and then got that nonsense in the mail for it!

Just crazy to me not only how high the price tags can reach (way higher than anything I've mentioned so far), but how expensive it goes before audiophiles stop calling it "cheap". There's a massive disconnect for me whenever I see someone (on a forum, in a review, in a video, in a magazine, whatever) talking about something that for me is unthinkably expensive as if it's some kind of great deal, usually touting something along the lines of "you get what you pay for" just to rub it in. I don't get it... and, I'll admit, it's frustrating. I don't see the value in any of it. Am I alone?

"Affordable" is the most subjective reference and you should ignore it as irrelevant. You are the only one who can make such a determination.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Am I alone?

No, at least IMO. Obviously, some (most?) of us disagree.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

"Affordable" is the most subjective reference and you should ignore it as irrelevant. You are the only one who can make such a determination.

This!

 

[Petrushka]

The more I read around about hi-fi the more baffled and bewildered I become on the price tags of equipment... I see $3,000 speakers, $1,000 amplifiers and $500 headphones being hailed as "low price" "great value" "a steal" "budget" "affordable" etc... to me none of those are anywhere even close to being any of those things! Even $200 is already an awful lot for headphones by my reckoning. Just yesterday I saw a review in a magazine magazine calling itself "affordable audio" for a $680 amplifier, which dared to call it "affordable", and gave it their "best of the year" award... no, sir, that is not "affordable", that is half a month's rent! I'd feel like I got punked if I subscribed to that magazine and then got that nonsense in the mail for it!

Just crazy to me not only how high the price tags can reach (way higher than anything I've mentioned so far), but how expensive it goes before audiophiles stop calling it "cheap". There's a massive disconnect for me whenever I see someone (on a forum, in a review, in a video, in a magazine, whatever) talking about something that for me is unthinkably expensive as if it's some kind of great deal, usually touting something along the lines of "you get what you pay for" just to rub it in. I don't get it... and, I'll admit, it's frustrating. I don't see the value in any of it. Am I alone?

I bought 80 percent of everything I ever owned at garage and estate sales.

 

[Robin L]

I bought 80 percent of everything I ever owned at garage and estate sales.

And I had great luck at thrift stores. By today's standards, $200 for a pair of headphones is on the cheap end of the scale. Mind you, there are plenty of headphones cheaper. In any case, read the reviews here at ASR if you're looking for bargain gear, plenty of reviews of high-performance, low-cost gear to be found here.

 

[amper42]

Get yourself a $10 pair of Sony MDR-ZX110 headphones:

Amazon.com

and use them with your computer or phone for a nice sound for near nothing!

 

[Chrispy]

I can appreciate the sentiment. Affordable is not just your finances but also the market the product is aimed at; compared to "high end" audiophilia the prices you mention could be considered very affordable. Whether good value is another question. That last 1% gets really expensive . You can get very good stuff for relatively low cost these days. To me $200 for headphones is indeed expensive, as I've had a decent pair around for a long time that I don't even remember what I paid (but not that much) but I don't like wearing headphones, so.... As to a $685 amp, would depend on spec.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

And I had great luck at thrift stores. By today's standards, $200 for a pair of headphones is on the cheap end of the scale. Mind you, there are plenty of headphones cheaper. In any case, read the reviews here at ASR if you're looking for bargain gear, plenty of reviews of high-performance, low-cost gear to be found here.

The local charity thrift stores have been good to me too, but I've nabbed some great bargains on solid used gear -- and a tremendous deal on a brand-new pair of three-way Kali monitors -- via eBay. For new Chinese gear, the manufacturer storefronts on AliExpress have always done right by me. I got my SVS subwoofer and a pair of nice Amir-recommended Yamaha headphones brand-new during holiday sales via Amazon, and bought my DSP unit from Parts Express when it briefly went on sale at an ultra-deep discount. While I'm obviously and unabashedly frugal, to say the very least, I'm very pleased with the results, with my entire 7.1 system coming in at well under $2k USD expended over the past 3-4 years.

 

[GreeneDeux]

By today's standards, $200 for a pair of headphones is on the cheap end of the scale.

About the cheapest for "proper" hi-fi headphones, yeah, and about the most I could be persuaded to spend... and I did, that's almost what my Sennheisers cost me. HD 579, $180 CAD. In hindsight, I kind of regret it, not because they don't sound good, or even because I think the good sound wasn't worth it, but because the velour cover on the earcups tore off and the fake leather on the headband started flaking off and is making too much of a mess now to keep using them. I also found out that headphones give me headaches, but that's a me problem, not the headphones'.

For a long time, my cans of choice were Monoprice "DJ-style" headphones. I think they were $20 USD. From memory, they didn't sound much worse than the Senns overall, though of course more closed-in since they weren't open-back. I don't think Monorpice makes them anymore. The problem - three years, three pairs. Broke at the hinge every time. The Senns only just barely lasted long enough to roughly break even vs. buying a new pair of Monos every year.

 

[Ron Texas]

The prices the OP mentions may not be a steal, but in the Hi-Fi world, they aren't horrible.

 

[sam_adams]

 

[Groove01]

Affordability is both relative and subjective (as previously mentioned). From a production standpoint, I’d think it’s pretty challenging to put anything of decent quality in the market for much less than the prices in the OP.

It’s like houses, no one is building affordable starter homes anymore. Why…because there’s no money in it. (And I’m not talking greed, there’s literally no money in it. The juice is simply not worth the squeeze from an economic standpoint)

 

[Sal1950]

Prices... am I out of touch?​

Yes, it seems like it.
Have you priced a new car lately, or even groceries?
Only way partly around it is buying used, but not recommended for food.

 

[Sal1950]

The prices the OP mentions may not be a steal, but in the Hi-Fi world, they aren't horrible.

For sure, check out a recent Stereophile or TAS "recommended components" list.
It's mostly gear that only millionaires can afford.

 

[GreeneDeux]

Prices... am I out of touch?​

Yes, it seems like it.
Have you priced a new car lately, or even groceries?
Only way partly around it is buying used, but not recommended for food.

To be fair, I can't eat my headphones, and I can't drive an amplifier to work... though, new car prices are pretty ridiculous to me too, given how long they (don't) last these days. But, comparing an entire new CAR to a pair of headphones, or a pair of speakers, or an amplifier is a bit silly in my opinion!

Nice avatar, by the way... I see you are a man of culture

 

[restorer-john]

Taking an interest in high fidelity audio has always been a considerable financial undertaking. Even in the earliest days, it wasn't cheap. People would build their own gear to save money (and have fun making something), but the good commercial gear in the 1960s and 1970s was expensive. Only when the Japanese got involved on scale, did HiFi become affordable and high quality at the same time. That was the mid to late 1970s.

Since then, it has become fragmented with a huge hole in what was the affordable and good value parts of their offerings. There's the frankly ridiculous and stupid high end and there's the bargain basement, disposable rubbish, like there has always been. Instead of big companies stooping to plastic panelled, stripped down, horror-shows, they wholesale handed off that segment to the Chinese. No point thrashing it out in a race to the bottom- there's no money in it.

To the OP. A $680 amplifier is eminently affordable and in 2024, that seems very reasonable. I'll bet you spent more on your phone. Something you will dispose of in a few short years.

 

[Groove01]

I'll bet you spent more on your phone. Something you will dispose of in a few short years.

That’s a really good and interesting comparison. A good quality amplifier really shouldn’t ever become “obsolete”. (I have several from the 50’s myself - lol)

Buy it once…