Potential for life in Venus detected

[SIY]

It is unclear why you attempt to be coy in regards to this finding. Venus has an atmosphere that is quite different from the ones on Jupiter, et al. and there is no known mechanism other than life that can produce this result. if you merely want to say it is unproven, then fine.

The part in red is an amazing jump.

 

[RayDunzl]

 

[Wes]

The part in red is an amazing jump.

Post the mechanism then - one that will produce the experimental result in Venus's atmosphere.

 

[SIY]

Post the mechanism then - one that will produce the experimental result in Venus's atmosphere.

I assume you'll pay me for my professional time?

I won't start with a remarkable temerity that my expertise in phosphine chemistry is enough to make the bold statements that you do, but I know enough inorganic chemistry to know how varied and complex it is, and enough spectroscopy to understand many possible sources of measurement uncertainty. So the leap to "it's life, there's no other explanation" is not one I'd ever make while sober or not under competitive pressure for grant money and observation time.

But like I said, if you want to pay me (chemistry is what I do to pay the rent and put food on the table), I could do a literature dive and give you half a dozen alternatives within a few days. My rates are reasonable.

 

[mansr]

There is (supposedly) no known reaction that would produce phosphine under the conditions presumed to be present on Venus. There is also no known reaction that would sustain life on Venus. The question is, which of these unknown things is more likely to exist?

 

[Thomas savage]

I assume you'll pay me for my professional time?

I won't start with a remarkable temerity that my expertise in phosphine chemistry is enough to make the bold statements that you do, but I know enough inorganic chemistry to know how varied and complex it is, and enough spectroscopy to understand many possible sources of measurement uncertainty. So the leap to "it's life, there's no other explanation" is not one I'd ever make while sober or not under competitive pressure for grant money and observation time.

But like I said, if you want to pay me (chemistry is what I do to pay the rent and put food on the table), I could do a literature dive and give you half a dozen alternatives within a few days. My rates are reasonable.

But the moon is made of cheese right ? Don't go unpicking all of science.

 

[PierreV]

But like I said, if you want to pay me (chemistry is what I do to pay the rent and put food on the table), I could do a literature dive and give you half a dozen alternatives within a few days.

Given the high profile of the announcement, the extensive paper (and supplementary material), I think we can safely assume some specialists in the field are on it already. They do have "Dr Phosphine" https://clarasousasilva.com/phosphine on board already though.

Speaking of news coverage, I think Ethan Siegel coverage was very balanced. He's qualified, competent, and was on the Q&A
https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...ine-is-amazing-but-doesnt-mean-life-on-venus/

As a bonus, Ethan could make a credible Babylon 5 appearance without prosthetics.

 

[SIY]

Given the high profile of the announcement, the extensive paper (and supplementary material), I think we can safely assume some specialists in the field are on it already.

No doubt about that, and there are likely a LOT of specialists doing an initial scan, much like what happens after any high-profile PR-heavy paper appears.

One more reason to hold back on the "alien life" promotional angle.

The Siegel article is indeed very good!

 

[phoenixdogfan]

There is (supposedly) no known reaction that would produce phosphine under the conditions presumed to be present on Venus. There is also no known reaction that would sustain life on Venus. The question is, which of these unknown things is more likely to exist?

Go there and find out. We've sent dozens of probes to Mars, don't know why we couldn't send something to Venus which would orbit, send something to dip into the atmosphere, take sample, return them to the mother ship, and analyze them. We could actually know a lot more in less than 5 years if we get busy now.

 

[mansr]

Go there and find out.

That's what the paper suggests. I wouldn't be surprised if they put the life thing in there knowing it would create a media stir, thus making it easier to get funding for a mission.

 

[raif71]

 

[KaiserSoze]

"Venusians are meeting with people in all walks of life, in an advisory capacity." - Jack (or George...)

 

[SIY]

That's what the paper suggests. I wouldn't be surprised if they put the life thing in there knowing it would create a media stir, thus making it easier to get funding for a mission.

No, that’s sooooo cynical!

 

[Wes]

I assume you'll pay me for my professional time?

I won't start with a remarkable temerity that my expertise in phosphine chemistry is enough to make the bold statements that you do, but I know enough inorganic chemistry to know how varied and complex it is, and enough spectroscopy to understand many possible sources of measurement uncertainty. So the leap to "it's life, there's no other explanation" is not one I'd ever make while sober or not under competitive pressure for grant money and observation time.

But like I said, if you want to pay me (chemistry is what I do to pay the rent and put food on the table), I could do a literature dive and give you half a dozen alternatives within a few days. My rates are reasonable.

We have experts in atmospheric chemistry and comparative planetology who say there is no way they can imagine that inorganic rxns can produce this result. You then attack the result with no evidence, yet do not acknowledge that they would of course check for all uncertainties before publishing.

No one has made the strawman leap that you posit. Not to mention the obfuscation from mansr.

You are also making the same argument that subjectivists make about cables and their effects on sound.

You both are undermining this site with your over-blown comments on this subject.

 

[mansr]

 

[RayDunzl]

We've sent dozens of probes to Mars, don't know why we couldn't send something to Venus which would orbit, send something to dip into the atmosphere, take sample, return them to the mother ship, and analyze them.

Venus' mass is comparable to Earth.

Consider what it takes to send something from Earth's atmosphere into Earth orbit.

"SS-520-5
The smallest orbital rocket is SS-520-5, measuring 9.54 m (31 ft 3.5 in) tall and 0.52 m (1 ft 8 in) in diameter and weighs 2,600 kg (5,732 lb), achieved by Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (Japan) in Uchinoura Space Center, Kagoshima Prefecture, Japan, launched on 3 February 2018."

https://spaceflight101.com/japan-ss-520-5-launch-success/

It orbited a payload of 3kg.

It would probably be easier to send the lab down than to bring a sample up.

 

[SIY]

We have experts in atmospheric chemistry and comparative planetology who say there is no way they can imagine that inorganic rxns can produce this result. You then attack the result with no evidence, yet do not acknowledge that they would of course check for all uncertainties before publishing.

No one has made the strawman leap that you posit. Not to mention the obfuscation from mansr.

You are also making the same argument that subjectivists make about cables and their effects on sound.

You both are undermining this site with your over-blown comments on this subject.

I never attacked the result. Stop lying.

The leap to alien life is the issue.

 

[mansr]

It would probably be easier to send the lab down than to bring a sample up.

The hard part is getting any results before the lab melts.

 

[Wes]

understand many possible sources of measurement uncertainty

you attacked the result. Stop lying.

 

[tomtoo]

Calm down. Lets do a poll.