PEQ Sennheiser HD560S vs upgrade to Sundara or Edition XS, or other HP

[Svensson]

I'm using Senheiser HD560s via UAPP with Oratory or Crinacle PEQ.through E1DA9038D DAC/amp. It really is a marvellous listening experience.
Using model specific PEQs, would HiFiman Sundara (£300), Edition XS (£430) or any other headphone up to about that £400ish price range be superior and if so how?
Will spend my money if likely to improve, but the more I read the less I'm convinced that a relatively small price jump would be noticably better.

 

[Jimbob54]

I'm using Senheiser HD560s via UAPP with Oratory or Crinacle PEQ.through E1DA9038D DAC/amp. It really is a marvellous listening experience.
Using model specific PEQs, would HiFiman Sundara (£300), Edition XS (£430) or any other headphone up to about that £400ish price range be superior and if so how?
Will spend my money if likely to improve, but the more I read the less I'm convinced that a relatively small price jump would be noticably better.

If they are comfy for you and you think you have reached where you want to be with EQ I would say no. Enjoy the music. (Same answer for any headphone really)

 

[Svensson]

If they are comfy for you and you think you have reached where you want to be with EQ I would say no. Enjoy the music. (Same answer for any headphone really)

@Jimbob54 thank you. From your signture (too many DACs, amps, headphones), you'll be at least well experienced.

My Etymotic ER2SE IEMs seem to resolve more detail than the Sennheiser HD560S. I prefer heaphones over IEMs (personal thing). Would you think that other headphones in the below £450 bracket could give me both the IEM detail perks and the HP preference to sticking things in my ears?

 

[usern]

If there is too much background noise (street, AC, PC fans, etc) and you can't hear quiet details because of that, then you should look into closed back headphones.

Or what do you mean with "resolve more detail"?

 

[Svensson]

If there is too much background noise (street, AC, PC fans, etc) and you can't hear quiet details because of that, then you should look into closed back headphones.

Or what do you mean with "resolve more detail"?

Thanks, I could have been more specific. It's when I'm listening at home, no AC, fans, traffic noise etc. and with family out.
An example would be on the opening of "Speak to me", Dark Side of the Moon 50th Anniversary hi-res. This is an album I've listened to for 35 years and now is remastered. I can hear slightly more detail or clarity with the IEMs than the HPs, even when listening marginally quieter or louder with the Sennheisers.
In the absence of correct technical language, I'd say that it's similar to comparing the pictures I take with a 50mm prime lens with pictures taken at 50mm with a telephoto lens. Both create good pics, but the prime lens creates a more detailed and sharper image than the tele lens which is just slightly softer straight out of the camera in RAW. Ths prime is also better in low light levels.

 

[solderdude]

Strange as this may seem the differences you perceive are solely due to deviations in the frequency response (on/in your ears) due to the few dB lift around 2.5kHz of the ER2XR.
The HD560S has a lift a bit higher up and sounds different.

 

[Svensson]

Strange as this may seem the differences you perceive are solely due to deviations in the frequency response (on/in your ears) due to the few dB lift around 2.5kHz of the ER2XR.
The HD560S has a lift a bit higher up and sounds different.

Thank you @Jimbob54 @usern and @solderdude for the information & knowledge.

I think from that:
PEQ tries to achieve a headphone or IEM profile as close to a defined target as possible. There is a compromise to be made due to the physics of each model being able to achieve that profile and none do exactly. Differences heard are due to the physical differences between models. For sound alone (not build quality, looks etc.) we can use PEQ and call it endgame if the IEM or headphone can be adjusted to a preferred profile.

 

[solderdude]

PEQ tries to achieve a headphone or IEM profile as close to a defined target as possible

The issue here is the actual target

Try the following experiment... use an over-ear headphone and an IEM. Use the PEQ generated using 'standard' test fixtures (must be by the same person/test fixture) and compare the tonality.
You will find they don't match (at all sometimes)
The reason is the used targets and/or fit/insertion depth/seal.
Also... a lot of ears do not match some specific standards either.

headphone measurements are 'nice' but you should not expect it to be an exact science... no matter how loud some people shout otherwise

 

[Svensson]

The issue here is the actual target

Try the following experiment... use an over-ear headphone and an IEM. Use the PEQ generated using 'standard' test fixtures (must be by the same person/test fixture) and compare the tonality.
You will find they don't match (at all sometimes)
The reason is the used targets and/or fit/insertion depth/seal.

headphone measurements are 'nice' but you should not expect it to be an exact science... no matter how loud some people shout otherwise

That's really useful, thanks. Both the Etymotic IEMs and HD560S are on their respective Oratory PEQ. Both sound improved with that PEQ. They sound, almost identical, except for those little differences. I may need to learn how to gently adjust PEQ to see if I can find my sweet spot. I may well find that it's easiest left as it is.

 

[usern]

An example would be on the opening of "Speak to me", Dark Side of the Moon 50th Anniversary hi-res. This is an album I've listened to for 35 years and now is remastered. I can hear slightly more detail or clarity with the IEMs than the HPs, even when listening marginally quieter or louder with the Sennheisers.

Which sounds exactly? Most likely it's just different tonality and all the details are there.

How long have you had 560S? Does the tonality bother you or does FOMO bother you? The headphones you listed might have slightly different tonality with Harman PEQ, but it's just that - different, but not better. What they might be better is lower distortion at very very loud volume. They are also much heavier and heat up more due to planar design.

 

[Spyart]

Just remove oratory1990 eq and be happy. Because decreasing 5-8k range will lead To nothing but small soundstage.

 

[Jimbob54]

From your signture (too many DACs, amps, headphones), you'll be at least well experienced.

All that means is I know how to spend money ;-)