Paradigm Persona,

[ahofer]

I auditioned the Paradigm 3Fs. I knew nothing about them when the dealer teed them up. I was listening to a recording I know well of Brahms Sonatas, pplayed by Kim Kashkashian on Viola (btw, my wife is a violist, so I hear it live all the time, in my listening room). For the first few seconds I was intrigued by all the detail I was hearing, but concerned about the thinness of the piano. Then I thought, these may have an exaggerated high end. Then I thought ACK! I would go crazy with listening fatigue if I had to use these every night.

Then I looked at the Stereophile tests and saw the massively tipped up high end and thought AH-HA! I wasn't imagining that part.

The dealer insisted that all they needed was to be matched with an enormously expensive tube amp that he happneed to have, plus the right set of mega-buck cables. When I showed him the test results he continued to argue that they were "not bright". And he continued by email later.

As an aside, every dealer I met during my spring auditioning crapped on my amplifier (1990s Adcom GFA-5802, a high-power, high bias Nelson Pass design). So this whole experience reminded me why I hadn't done any serious hi-fi shopping until my Thiels broke again.

1) I really liked the Adcom-Thiel (3.6) combination for two decades, and just enjoyed listening to music and finding good recordings.
2) Dealers can't seem to help themselves. Who needs to be condescended to, especially by people who can't even acknowledge consistent measurement AND listening results?

If anyone cares, I ended up with Harbeth SHL5+. They were actually the only thing I listened to that compared positively to the Thiels(I auditioned a lot of stuff, but all under $14k/pair). That was a shock. Second place was Wilson Sabrinas. But a fairly distant and more expensive second. String timbres seem so right to me on the Harbeths. I suspect the answer lurks somewhere in the large, but never-reported speaker distortion measurements, but maybe it's in my head. Either way, I get to enjoy it every night.

(btw, has anyone noticed that the "expert" dealer listening rooms are often far from ideal? Lyric in NYC has the Sabrinas against a brick wall, so live-end/live-end. Isn't that a no-no?)

And the old Adcom works great with them. My only issue with it is the amount of heat it generates in my new NYC apartment, in summer. The Harbeths don't need the massive power reserves like the Thiels, so I'm contemplating getting one of the new cool-running designs (Benchmark, Emotiva, ELAC, parasound) and running my own little amplifier comparison. Or if anyone wants to bring one over and do the comparison for fun.....

Sorry, got OT. I just think you should be very careful with Paradigms. You might not be happy with that frequency profile long term.

 

[yyzsb]

I have heard a few Harbeth's recently with Luxman gear and it sounded great. However this gear was very expensive. I owned the Benchmark AHB2 before and I think it maybe a very good match for a Harbeth.

 

[GTsmokeya84]

Since I have acquired my 3F's I have invested in the Topping D70 Dac because I was curious about the AKM chipset being warmer as I have read numerous times. To which I say I feel its a tad warmer so that helped and a ifi purifier for the usb that I feed it as well helped recover some depth. I also invested in some crazy thick overpriced speaker wire which I think I am convincing myself that has helped along with now adding a Paradigm Defiance Subwoofer that I used the Arc room calibration. The subwoofer with room correction has really changed things. I also got a Emotiva pre amp and XPA Gen 3 Amp for the speakers as well. So long story short since I got the speakers I invested in much more to tailor them to my ears. Its obvious they are bright even my dealer says that so sorry to hear your dealer digging his heels in why not be honest? My audio guy is really my drug dealer since he always hooks me up and I can hardly say no. I have had people over who are into music and when they provide the source (ie: flac file or something like that) they are impressed. I have been told on more than one occasion that they hear things they never heard before or they have never heard this material as clear as they were when listening to the Paradigms.

Sorry that was so long^

Side note I picked up Paradigm's Mini Atom speakers for $300 in white and wow with a good setup they smoke any speaker I have heard in that price range. Overall I enjoy Paradigm and their lineup is quite large.

 

[Cbdb2]

Just demoed the 3fs and also found them a bit bright for my old ears, but otherwise very detailed, low distortion, nice sounding. Since bright can help detail, and I would guess not many people under 40 affording these, did they do this on purpose, to stand out from the crowd? I think so. For that kind of money wheres the switch to make them flat?

 

[GTsmokeya84]

For me the Topping D70 Dac really helped smooth and calm the highs. The built in Dac from Emotiva on their preamp is weak in my opinion. Highs sounded harsh but the D70 makes things feel more open and natural.

 

[w1000i]

I think persona should not be pointed at your chair, because they have elevated highs from 8k-20k hz on axis but off axis that region drop so they should be smoother. In addition maybe some absorption panel would help too.

 

[ahofer]

I think persona should not be pointed at your chair, because they have elevated highs from 8k-20k hz on axis but off axis that region drop so they should be smoother. In addition maybe some absorption panel would help too.

I tried changing the toe-in to zero in the audition. The dealer nearly had a heart attack. Neither of us cared for the result (subjectively). Of course, he felt the solution was to also buy a Primaluna Prologue amp to go with them. Yeesh.

 

[Sal1950]

Paradigm uses the Anthem gear at shows to demo, including using the ARC room correction so your never sure what the naked speakers sound like.

 

[Cbdb2]

Paradigm uses the Anthem gear at shows to demo, including using the ARC room correction so your never sure what the naked speakers sound like.

I auditioned at a dealer who was using a high end Maranz stereo amp. The highs were by no means harsh, just too hot. Just needed a bit of EQ. I Still think they did this on purpose.

 

[Cbdb2]

I tried changing the toe-in to zero in the audition. The dealer nearly had a heart attack. Neither of us cared for the result (subjectively). Of course, he felt the solution was to also buy a Primaluna Prologue amp to go with them. Yeesh.

I was going to cover the tweeters with toilet paper.

 

[Thomas savage]

'bling' junk = total waste of $ = less output than a decent 18" 'no noame' PA driver U can buy for about $100. This kind of 'hopelessly inneficient design' offends me = what a $cam. Instead of WA$TING $ on 'all frame' could B getting GR8 SOUND with something much simpler (but bigger diameter =)

Iv banned this guy, I can't read anymore of his illiterate nonsense and bravado.

 

[BDWoody]

Iv banned this guy, I can't read anymore of his illiterate nonsense and bravado.

Thank you 8lb 6oz Baby Jesus...

 

[Thomas savage]

Thank you 8lb 6oz Baby Jesus...

Ha ha , it's the first I'd seen of him .. thought he merited getting fast tracked ...... To the exit door.

The report post button is your friend!

 

[VintageFlanker]

Iv banned this guy, I can't read anymore of his illiterate nonsense and bravado.

Many thanks, Thomas. That was needed as an act of Public Health.

 

[Tom C]

I realize I’m pretty late to the party here, but I thought I’d add my subjective two cents.
I just got a pair of Persona 3f about a month ago. I have to say, this is the best pair of speakers I’ve ever owned. I am setting up a multi-channel home theater and music system in a new remodel, and was planning to go with one of the Revels. I was in a hifi shop around Christmas time. My wife saw these in silver finish and said “I like how those look.” When a used pair came up for sale in aria blue at an attractive price, she said “get those pretty speakers before someone else does!”
The couple of measurement graphs I’ve been able to find online weren’t super flat, but the off-axis behavior looked reasonably well controlled to my amateur eye, and the bass rise is supported by user preference curves established in the literature (I think). Anyway, I plan to start to get into room correction, and expect to be able to get them to a more textbook style in-room frequency response. But even without that, the stereo imaging and clarity of these is beautiful. I’ve never heard a pair of Revels, and if I did, maybe I would agree they are superior. But as it is, I’m very satisfied with what I’m getting out of these, and really don’t feel I need something better.
I used to think of myself as a somewhat critical, discerning listener. After hanging out here a while, I now realize I might have tin ears. Because my Kef LS50’s sound really good to me. My Tannoy Definition DC 10A’s sound very different, but very enjoyable with a subwoofer (a lot less bass vs. LS50, even when backed against the front wall), if at times dark (top end is pretty lumpy above 10k, with significant peaks and dips). So, I’ve got three speaker systems that seem problematic when measured, but sound very good to me. Maybe it’s my 60 y/o ears. Or because I’m not a trained or particularly experienced listener. Or I’m an outlier with a preference for extremes. Oh well, they still give me great joy.

 

[steve59]

I hide out at a local hifi shop once in awhile during the long Chicago winters and I got to spend hours with the 7f with different amp combos. The anthem str integrated made the speakers sound a bit thin in the mids and so not very engaging despite the incredible bass outpu. The str separates were like audiophil, hyper detail freaking imaging with a stage I could visualize but there was a little to much air around the voices and instruments to pass as believabl, impressive, but a little to much of a good thing. Last visit the 7f was connected to a pathos $5k integrated and I stayed all day. I couldn’t trip them up. the hyper detai, miniature artists and excess air was gone and they just played music. to say get a demo with the gear you plan to use with these speakers is an understatement. If I had heard this setup before I bought my current system I would have bought the 7f pathos comb. I know the forum says audio science review and I got no science to explain why they could sound so different, but after owning a pair or 4 of speakers that measure sota on the bench and sound.....uninvolving at home I have to trust my ears.

 

[JDragon]

I hide out at a local hifi shop once in awhile during the long Chicago winters and I got to spend hours with the 7f with different amp combos. The anthem str integrated made the speakers sound a bit thin in the mids and so not very engaging despite the incredible bass outpu. The str separates were like audiophil, hyper detail freaking imaging with a stage I could visualize but there was a little to much air around the voices and instruments to pass as believabl, impressive, but a little to much of a good thing. Last visit the 7f was connected to a pathos $5k integrated and I stayed all day. I couldn’t trip them up. the hyper detai, miniature artists and excess air was gone and they just played music. to say get a demo with the gear you plan to use with these speakers is an understatement. If I had heard this setup before I bought my current system I would have bought the 7f pathos comb. I know the forum says audio science review and I got no science to explain why they could sound so different, but after owning a pair or 4 of speakers that measure sota on the bench and sound.....uninvolving at home I have to trust my ears.

Do you know if the STR components had room correction enabled?

 

[Sal1950]

I know the forum says audio science review and I got no science to explain why they could sound so different, but after owning a pair or 4 of speakers that measure sota on the bench and sound.....uninvolving at home I have to trust my ears.

As JDragon is alluding to above, both the Anthem kits have their proprietary room correction built in and could be tweaked to make the speakers sound like about anything you like.

 

[steve59]

The shop owner claimed not to use it as the character of the system had changed it was also the first thing I thought. The only other admission was a slight change in positioning between the str separates and pathos integrated and they stream with roon so it is possible they eq thru that software, but I would expect him to say so. They moved shops so after the lockdown is over i'll go listen to the new room, but these speakers left quite an impression.

 

[JDragon]

The shop owner claimed not to use it as the character of the system had changed it was also the first thing I thought. The only other admission was a slight change in positioning between the str separates and pathos integrated and they stream with roon so it is possible they eq thru that software, but I would expect him to say so. They moved shops so after the lockdown is over i'll go listen to the new room, but these speakers left quite an impression.

Thanks, would be interested to see if they sound better with ARC on. The Persona line doesn’t measure very flat but I’m curious about how the beryllium driver and those interesting looking grills respond to EQ.