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Oratory1990 has REMEASURED a load of headphones and updated his pdf's

Robbo99999

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Oratory has recently remeasured a load of headphones, (I think using a new firmware), and it's changed some of the frequency responses. Here is his post listing his update (incl a few new headphones he's measured too): https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/jtf6la
Here's the Sennheisser HD600 that I have showing his old measurement vs his new measurement (green line) which I imported both into REW so you can see the difference of the new firmware/setup:
HD600 new vs old measurement.jpg

I also checked for differences in another headphone I have NAD HP50, and there weren't any significant differences, virtually identical.....so this new firmware (or whatever the difference is, I'm a bit sketchy on the specific difference)....so this new firmware is changing the measurements of some headphones but not of others.

I did an EQ using the new measurement of the HD600, here it is:
HD600 New Measurement Oratory.jpg


And here's my old EQ I did using his old (original) measurement:
HD600 Oratory My EQ.jpg

(EDIT: these are all EQ's done to the 2018 Harman Curve, which is the same target curve used by Oratory....just these EQ's are created by my own fair hand manually)

Feel free to try these out on your Sennheiser HD600, I think I prefer the EQ based on the new measurement...it's late in the day here though now & I've only done limited testing between the two....the EQ based on the new measurement I think I find wider & more open and I like the bass better, but these are only quick tests of mine when I'm tired.

Let me know what you think, and what you know about these new changes in Oratory's gear & measurements? And also perhaps if you prefer EQ's from his new measurements or his old measurements?
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EDIT 7th Dec: I contacted Oratory1990 & received a response from him. The remeasurements he did are based on testing some more units of the various headphones he's previously tested. There has been no "firmware change" to his measurement gear that I was talking about. The different equipment reference numbers at the bottom of his pdf's for his measurements & EQ's, he explained this so I'll copy & paste his reply: "I use a Gras 43AC for in-ear headphones and a 43AG or 45BC (mostly the latter) for everything else. Aside from sealing which is easier on the 43AG, those will deliver identical results and the setup hasn't change in some time."

Cool, the mysteries have been answered!
 
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Martin

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The Audeze LCD-3 measured much better than I expected. I think they measure the best of the LCD line.

Martin
 

wasnotwasnotwas

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Oratory has recently remeasured a load of headphones, (I think using a new firmware), and it's changed some of the frequency responses. Here is his post listing his update (incl a few new headphones he's measured too): https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/jtf6la
Here's the Sennheisser HD600 that I have showing his old measurement vs his new measurement (green line) which I imported both into REW so you can see the difference of the new firmware/setup:
View attachment 97492
I also checked for differences in another headphone I have NAD HP50, and there weren't any significant differences, virtually identical.....so this new firmware (or whatever the difference is, I'm a bit sketchy on the specific difference)....so this new firmware is changing the measurements of some headphones but not of others.

I did an EQ using the new measurement of the HD600, here it is:
View attachment 97493

And here's my old EQ I did using his old (original) measurement:
View attachment 97494

Feel free to try these out on your Sennheiser HD600, I think I prefer the EQ based on the new measurement...it's late in the day here though now & I've only done limited testing between the two....the EQ based on the new measurement I think I find wider & more open and I like the bass better, but these are only quick tests of mine when I'm tired.

Let me know what you think, and what you know about these new changes in Oratory's gear & measurements? And also perhaps if you prefer EQ's from his new measurements or his old measurements?
Why don't you just use his EQ settings? When you say your EQ, how does that differ from his suggested EQ to whichever target he listed?
I assume your EQ is Harman modified to your taste?

Edit : actually, on re reading your post, you might just be showing us in REW how the EQ from the new and old measurements differ? Or is your eq actually different parameters? Not at a laptop to check.
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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Why don't you just use his EQ settings? When you say your EQ, how does that differ from his suggested EQ to whichever target he listed?
I assume your EQ is Harman modified to your taste?
It's the same Target Curve he uses, but I've created the parametric filters myself manually.....I've found better results in my own listening tests and in some instances I was able to hug the curve more accurately whilst using lower Q filters, either through better placement of the target curve on the measurement or just virtue of my own creative/manual process (most specifically in relation to my NAD HP50 in terms of greater positive results). I don't think using a low shelf filter with a big boost & leaving that to function all the way down to 10Hz is particularly good for headphone distortion, so I tend to use a peak filter on the bass that has a natural roll off. Oratory limits himself to 10 filters, and I don't need that limitation, although I try to keep the number of filters as low as possible whilst still satisfying my result. I also enjoy the creative process of EQ'ing the measurement myself.
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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The Audeze LCD-3 measured much better than I expected. I think they measure the best of the LCD line.

Martin
Is that a new headphone he's added, or is that one he's remeasured?
 

wasnotwasnotwas

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It's the same Target Curve he uses, but I've created the parametric filters myself manually.....I've found better results in my own listening tests and in some instances I was able to hug the curve more accurately whilst using lower Q filters, either through better placement of the target curve on the measurement or just virtue of my own creative/manual process (most specifically in relation to my NAD HP50 in terms of greater positive results). I don't think using a low shelf filter with a big boost & leaving that to function all the way down to 10Hz is particularly good for headphone distortion, so I tend to use a peak filter on the bass that has a natural roll off. Oratory limits himself to 10 filters, and I don't need that limitation, although I try to keep the number of filters as low as possible whilst still satisfying my result. I also enjoy the creative process of EQ'ing the measurement myself.

Cheers . Understood.
 

win

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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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Edit : actually, on re reading your post, you might just be showing us in REW how the EQ from the new and old measurements differ? Or is your eq actually different parameters? Not at a laptop to check.
Every single one of my screenshots are of REW. The first one is just comparing the new vs old measurements of the HD600 so you can see the difference (as I said in the OP). The other two screenshots are showing my EQ of the new measurement & of the old measurement (as I said in the OP)......yes I used different parametric filters in the two EQ's which you can see in the screenshot.

The main thrust of this thread is that Oratory has remeasured some headphones using a different firmware or "something" which has resulted in slightly different frequency responses in comparison to his old measurements.....some headphones are more affected than others (NAD HP50 not affected at all virtually, and HD600 affected quite a lot).
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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Any guess if the 6xx has identical FR?
6xx is the same as the 650, identical.

His HD650 frequency response hasn't changed by the looks of it when I looked just now....in fact they're still the old pdf versions, so he's not remeasured that one. Maybe he has it on the cards to remeasure that one, considering the he remeasured the HD600. Although I find it strange that he listed the HD650 in the latest update, but I can't see any evidence of anything changed in any of his pdf's, they're all old dates.
 

bobbooo

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There's no 'firmware' change. He does these updates now and then. They're likely either additional units of each model measured and then averaged with previous measurements, or just tweaks made to the EQ curves themselves. What is big news however, is this:

https://headphonedatabase.com/oratory

His new tool to compare any number of his headphone measurements directly to each other on the same graph, with various selectable target curves. Don't think he's added all his measurements yet, but once he has this will be THE gold standard headphone measurement resource.
 

Feelas

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His new tool to compare any number of his headphone measurements directly to each other on the same graph, with various selectable target curves. Don't think he's added all his measurements yet, but once he has this will be THE gold standard headphone measurement resource.

Now we should be watching out for a crossgrapher between o1990 and Crinacle's GRAS results, so it's possible to look for rig differences.
 

maverickronin

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His new tool to compare any number of his headphone measurements directly to each other on the same graph, with various selectable target curves. Don't think he's added all his measurements yet, but once he has this will be THE gold standard headphone measurement resource.

And thank $DEITY he added diffuse field compensation...
 
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Robbo99999

Robbo99999

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There's no 'firmware' change. He does these updates now and then. They're likely either additional units of each model measured and then averaged with previous measurements, or just tweaks made to the EQ curves themselves. What is big news however, is this:

https://headphonedatabase.com/oratory

His new tool to compare any number of his headphone measurements directly to each other on the same graph, with various selectable target curves. Don't think he's added all his measurements yet, but once he has this will be THE gold standard headphone measurement resource.
I'm not sure where I got "firmware" change from, it was after scanning his reddit pages to find out why there was a difference, but I can't find that reference now. However, his pdf's for the remeasurements show a different measuring kit variation in comparison to his old pdf's, which makes me think he's changed something, the new measurement kit is on the left and the old one on the right:
kit difference with Oratory new measurement.jpg

Also, I don't think measuring an additional headphone or two would smooth out those peaks in the treble of the frequency response as much as it has done with the HD600 when comparing side by side - which makes me think he's changed something, and it's not related to "tweaks made to EQ Curves" that you mentioned because these are measurements:
HD600 new vs old measurement.jpg


EDIT: on the topic of his potential kit change I highlighted in the screenshot showing the model numbers, I found this link that describes different GRAS measurement systems and the GRAS45BC and the GRAS43AC are listed there, and they are different: https://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/kl...s - ear, mouth, head and torso simulators.pdf
However he's using the same artificial ear on both which is "GRAS KB5000/5001 anthropometric pinnae", so I'm unsure if overall these differences in measuring equipment are the cause for differences or not.....he's obviously keeping some consistency, which you would hope & it has to be relevant to the same Target Curve so he can't change too much.....but I wonder if the different kits may have somehow improved the resolution or reliability of the measurement somehow. I'll ask him on reddit when I find my reddit log on details!
 
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JohnYang1997

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I'm not sure where I got "firmware" change from, it was after scanning his reddit pages to find out why there was a difference, but I can't find that reference now. However, his pdf's for the remeasurements show a different measuring kit variation in comparison to his old pdf's, which makes me think he's changed something, the new measurement kit is on the left and the old one on the right:
View attachment 97551
Also, I don't think measuring an additional headphone or two would smooth out those peaks in the treble of the frequency response as much as it has done with the HD600 when comparing side by side - which makes me think he's changed something, and it's not related to "tweaks made to EQ Curves" that you mentioned because these are measurements:
View attachment 97552
This is a very large change. Just seach for what those two mean.
 

sweetchaos

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I have Hifiman HE-400i (2016), prior to finding this post, I was using "May 2020" PEQ from github by Oratory. It sounded awesome!

Now, seeing how some headphones got remeasured last month...I went looking for my new PEQ filters.

I found PEQ in 2 places:
#1. Main reddit post links to dropbox file.
How did this sound?
More boomy, so I'll have to get used to it, while testing it.
It also has preamp of -12.5dB, which cuts off the overall volume (since my previous PEQ had only preamp of -7.3dB).
#2. Then checked the usual github page, and saw new recommended PEQ filters that got updated last month.
My assumption is that they should match...but they didn't?
This matched the sound quality of my "May 2020 PEQ" from github, and it sounded great.
Very difficult to hear the difference between my previous 'May 2020 PEQ' and this one, but I'll trust the new re-measured headphones and use it.

Anyone know why the 2 aren't an exact match?

UPDATE on 2020-12-16:
I realize what caused my confusion above...
I was looking at EQ #2 posted by jaakkopasanen, and thought since the measurements came from Oratory1990 that the PEQ filters must match.
I thought that jaakkopasanen was simply re-posting all known PEQ filters from other sources, but I was wrong.
I learned that jaakkopasanen took measurements from others (like Oratory1990) and then calculated the PEQ filters himself.
Now I've cleared up my own confusion. :D
 
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Robbo99999

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I've just now posted in reddit asking Oratory what has changed in his remeasurements given the big change in the HD600 frequency response, and if there is any significance to the new measurement equipment designator that he is posting at the bottom of his pdf files:
https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/k7ptcc
 

Jose Hidalgo

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Hi @Robbo99999 , thanks for the info :) Two questions :
  1. About your own PEQ for HD600, I have your previous one (which was 14 bands BTW, the new one is only 7 ? :oops:) and the gain you told me to apply was -6.5 dB. So what's the gain for your new PEQ ?

  2. Oratory's list includes the Sundara, but I can't find the updated PDF. The only PDF I can find is the "revised earpads - preliminary" (v2.9 from 17.09.20), so it can't be the new one. Could somebody help me find the new one ?
Thanks.
 
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