Nice Talk with Paul Barton of PSB Speakers

[MarkS]

Adding on, he said that when testing in stereo, the anchor got higher votes than in mono testing. In other words, listeners are less picky about the fidelity of a speaker in stereo. He explains that Stereo playback helps to mask tonality errors.

I agree! But I draw the opposite conclusion for auditioning: in stereo, other factors can dominate over tonality errors (which all speakers have anyway). So I want to audition in the format that I'm going to be listening to.

He also explains as I quoted that the imaging people talk about mostly comes from content and not any property of the speaker.

This makes no sense to me. If stictly true, it would mean that all speakers present the same imaging and soundstaging. But they don't. Directivity is the crucial measurement here.

 

[Jukebox]

I attended to a conference in Austria 2 months ago together with Mr Barton. What an amazing person/engineer/music lover!
Of course I embraced the opportunity and discussed everything audio related with him: speaker design, driver materials, active vs passive, measurements, multichannel, room Acoustics/Dirac, desired target curve....etc
His knowledge, after a life time in this industry is limitless, a wonderful person from who to learn new things!

 

[Red_Red]

Anyway the ignorance of Darko and not believing in measurements are just beyond me.

It is a profitable posture rather than a fact. I am almost certain that he knows very well that the theses he is defending are totally absurd, but that he thinks above all of the profit he can make from the ignorance of others as well as from the commissions of companies who have the same state of mind. Otherwise, it would be the most idiotic of all.
At the same time, perhaps it is better to imagine him as an idiot than as a manipulator...

In any case, I have nothing particularly against Darko, at times he makes a pleasant entertainment, and indeed if we disregard his "theology", from time to time he presents interesting materials by their design or their functions and in rare cases he is even able to get us an interview like this, which is actually very nice. This Paul Barton, we feel, is as picky, passionate as he is sensitive. When he talks about his father making him a violin according to the diagrams of a Stradivarius for his 11th birthday, it's just deeply touching, but also entertaining with the details he gives. So here it is, that doesn't excuse everything, but just for this content, it was worth the wait...

 

[ocinn]

Shame their modern entry level models are pretty broken (see Amir’s P3/5 reviews) l.

Their old basic models were quite good (ex: B1)

(Subjectively) their Synchrony line is fantastic. I heard them (T600) recently and they sounded great. But at that point you are pretty deep into Revel money so, maybe not the best value.

 

[amirm]

Another words testing in Stereo will trick the listener into believing that the fidelity and tonality of the Speakers is better than it really is. Stereo testing will hide/mask weaknesses and flaws in the Speaker design. In your vast collective personal experience testing Speakers, how big/drastic can this Stereo Masking be?

Let me put it this way: I couldn't do what I do without mono listening! It so nicely focuses you to evaluate tonality instead of all the other extraneous factors. In broadcast/professional video, monitors had a switch to turn off color so we could see the true resolution/errors of video signal. Same applies here as far as mono testing. It is extremely revealing in that manner.

The other issue with stereo testing is how you position the two speakers. How would you know that they are representative of anyone's positioning?

 

[amirm]

This makes no sense to me. If stictly true, it would mean that all speakers present the same imaging and soundstaging. But they don't. Directivity is the crucial measurement here.

Directivity plays a very minor role compared to what is in the content. If I pan all the way to the right in the content, what directivity will change that experience? Nothing. You will hear it all the way to the right no matter what. Sure, there is an effect but it is second order, not first.

 

[Red_Red]

Besides, Amir, you're not tempted to do interviews with industrialists, sound engineers, mastering specialists, etc. ? That would be fantastic!

I would love, for example, an interview with the boss and/or the chief engineer of "Topping", or "Benchmark", "Purify", "Kartesian", "ECM label" and all those who try to do their best not only to their products but also to develop new/better industry standards.

 

[fineMen]

... a professional monitor of the era that just sounded horrible as a negative anchor, i.e. "known bad." If someone rates it the highest, you get to throw out their vote!

My point--if the music was produced using that 'well known speaker' then it should sound best when replayed using that speaker (again). Keep the votes in! These pals know.

 

[amirm]

My point--if the music was produced using that 'well known speaker' then it should sound best when replayed using that speaker (again).

??? The music that was used for testing was not (necessarily) created using that monitor. I think you are misunderstanding the nature of the test.

 

[LuvTheMusic]

For those wanting to listen at higher speed, this podcast is available as....well, a podcast! Just search for "Darko Audio Podcast" at Apple or through whatever podcast app you use. The podcast is dated Oct 2022.
\

 

[Axo1989]

It’s a film with Johnny Depp

Donnie Darko = Jake Gyllenhaal

 

[MacClintock]

Darko being Darko.

I only respect him for his taste with electronic music, but that's as far as it goes.

Even that is very fishy with a lot of bad taste techno and even trance.

 

[MarkS]

Directivity plays a very minor role [in imaging and soundstaging] compared to what is in the content. If I pan all the way to the right in the content, what directivity will change that experience? Nothing. You will hear it all the way to the right no matter what. Sure, there is an effect but it is second order, not first.

I don't care if you call it first or second order, the effect is there and it's real. Wide dispersion speakers sound different from narrow dispersion speakers in most rooms on most program material. And then there are the still more extreme designs such as bipoles (once famously owned by Floyd Toole for his own personal home listening room), dipoles, and omnis. Personally I find that wide dispersion designs sound better to me on the music that I listen to the most (classical orchestral and arena rock). And this difference is more pronounced in stereo than in single-speaker mono.

 

[amirm]

Wide dispersion speakers sound different from narrow dispersion speakers in most rooms on most program material.

A property which you can detect with mono just as well.

 

[MarkS]

I find that the difference is more pronounced in stereo.

 

[amirm]

That's fair....

 

[OldManMatt]

I really enjoyed the podcast..very cool. Thank you for the upload

 

[amirm]

I hope more people listen. It is such an informative yet low key talk covering many key aspects of sound reproduction.

 

[Phorize]

He tries so hard to get the answers he wants, only to have Paul tell him the opposite! I wish I could see his face as Paul disputed every assumption he had. Maybe he has learned something and will change in the future.

The limited number of cognitive neuroscience studies on changing beliefs, such as this one, don’t bode well for the prospect of Darko changing his mind:

Neural correlates of maintaining one’s political beliefs in the face of counterevidence - Scientific Reports

People often discount evidence that contradicts their firmly held beliefs. However, little is known about the neural mechanisms that govern this behavior. We used neuroimaging to investigate the neural systems involved in maintaining belief in the face of counterevidence, presenting 40 liberals...

www.nature.com

Mind you, audiophiles would probably just dismiss this sort of research by saying that there are things at play that don’t turn up in the mri measurements, failing of course to offer any information on what those things might be.,,

 

[ROOSKIE]

The limited number of cognitive neuroscience studies on changing beliefs, such as this one, don’t bode well for the prospect of Darko changing his mind:

What came 1st the chicken or the egg?

I guarantee you simply due to this interview Darko is already changing his mind. That is why the interview happened. That is how it works frequently. You start hanging out with new friends a bit before you realize you need to let go of some of the old ones you have grown apart from but haven't let go of.
For some folks this takes awhile to play out and for some of us it happens real fast.
He will come around. He actually seems very sincere to me. I prefer a sincere fool to a lot of other personality types.

Whilst I “don’t like Darko” for all the very correct reasons given here, I do actually like watching his YouTube videos and I think he has a pleasant and entertaining delivery style.

Same for me. I enjoy his videos, for entertainment of a sort.
Same with Andrew Robinson. I think he may also be slowly coming to understand measurements and how they actually work.
We will see. If those two dudes started getting more into it, they have massive followings. I hope they go there.