NHT Super Zero 2.1 Review (bookshelf speaker)

[YSC]

and I saw their super one seems goes down to 57hz making the sub unnecessary and is listed $179.99 on amazon, seems like with $20 per speaker and you are good to go with a much better sealed yet modern design, if the response is similar then it should be quite a bargain for such performance, interested to see how these 20 years younger ones go (TBH before this post I really have no idea of such a company existed! so no fanboy defending their purchase thing)

 

[leeroy 85032]

Funny... nearly every negative I was thinking about these speakers is mostly "explained away" by the creation date and/or its size. I think my first reaction would be to take a look at other NHT products and see if it (at least) appears they are producing products with modern ideas in mind (namely, directivity matching at the crossover). If so, I'd be more inclined to give them a pass on a design that is >20 years old.

That said, the bass with the high-Q peaking is bothersome. If the response were more flat there then I'd have no qualms about it given the dated design. Still, one could almost give that a pass because it's only about +2dB over the mean... it just drives the recessed midrange to be at least slightly problematic subjectively. And it's a small speaker so they are probably shooting for the "punch" of the kickdrum harmonic to give it some zest. It would be easier to align to a subwoofer wrt phase (thanks to the high group delay of the high-Q enclosure).

If it were priced closer to $125 for the pair then it would be even harder to discount it. But at $250/pair it doesn't really make it easy to excuse it by today's standards, where it still operates in the marketplace.


And there's the Catch 22. Yea, it's an old design so you have to give it some room for faults. But it is still being produced and sold as new today*. So how is it not fair to critique it by today's standards?

*As of this posting, the mfg's page states: "SOLD OUT. MORE ARRIVING 3RD WEEK OF DECEMBER. PRE-ORDERS ONLY."

The thing most here disregard en masse is : these speakers are *widely available*at deep discounts and shouldn't be judged solely at boutique pricing... They aren't $300/ 200 a pair speakers... They are $150 or less most of the time on Amazon..and if the reviewer doesn't know that what does that say about the review itself....?????

 

[JohnBooty]

Has anybody here had much luck integrating subs with speakers this bass-shy?

As others have already said, I can't understand these NHT speakers at all -- a sub is practically required, but integration seems a challenge unless you just set them directly atop a pair of stereo subs or something.

 

[andreasmaaan]

The thing most here disregard en masse is : these speakers are *widely available*at deep discounts and shouldn't be judged solely at boutique pricing... They aren't $300/ 200 a pair speakers... They are $150 or less most of the time on Amazon..and if the reviewer doesn't know that what does that say about the review itself....?????

It's not the reviewer's job to hunt around for the best price and then list it in the review. All they can be expected to report is the manufacturer's recommended retail price.

 

[Doctors11]

Granted it's in a completely different price bracket but I wonder how the Arendal Sound 1961 bookshelf speaker would compare to this. It's about the same size and shape and it's sealed. It is a modern design with a computer designed waveguide for the tweeter. Has anyone given these a try, maybe for a nearfield set up with a quality subwoofer?

https://arendalsound.com/tech-specs-1961-speakers/

 

[leeroy 85032]

It's not the reviewer's job to hunt around for the best price and then list it in the review. All they can be expected to report is the manufacturer's recommended retail price.

That's certainly an opinion..He certainly knew that the jbl 530 was widely available at less than retail...He actually based his rec on the sale price..

 

[Billy Budapest]

Here's the problem tho: Yes it has no bass, yes the manufacturer may have said it needs a sub (Let's just say this is the case for the sake of argument)
But then we have people who recommend this speaker without saying it needs a sub?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-speakers-500.12734/#post-380809

You definitely need a sub with these.

Amir tests speakers singly. That makes sense, but Amir also listens to speakers singly for the subjective part of his review. Therefore, he misses out on what these speakers do exceedingly well—stereo imaging. That’s why they have received high accolades for 30 years. And they DO image like almost no other speaker.

I suggest Amir listen to pairs of speakers for the subjective parts of his reviews. It makes absolutely no sense to do a subjective review of one speaker. Why? Because no one listens to a single speaker system at home. I know Amir has his reasons for listening to speakers singly, but I have always disagreed with this approach. You cannot form a useful subjective impression when listening to a single speaker rather than a stereo pair.

 

[whazzup]

That's certainly an opinion..

And how does the vendor's activities affect the objective measurements again...? You mean a reviewer is duty bound to advise you on discounted prices of the hundreds of products he or she has reviewed at any given time? That's your opinion?

 

[anchan]

Has anybody here had much luck integrating subs with speakers this bass-shy?

As others have already said, I can't understand these NHT speakers at all -- a sub is practically required, but integration seems a challenge unless you just set them directly atop a pair of stereo subs or something.

I touched on it a little in post #63, and works pretty well for a seated in one place situation. If you move all around the room, or bring your head to your knees and up and around, things start to break down a bit. But I am willing to sacrifice a touch of integration issues around 100hz in exchange for deep bass to 25hz, and what I hear as clarity in the high-bass/mids due to a lack port. But again, I have the 90's version, not these newer ones, although I imagine they are similar animals. I have a measurement mic and REW, but haven't gotten around to measuring yet.

 

[leeroy 85032]

And how does the vendor's activities affect the objective measurements again...? You mean a reviewer is duty bound to advise you on discounted prices of the hundreds of products he or she has reviewed at any given time? That's your opinion?

Yes exactly.. So what's your point? Like i said above the reviewer certainly knew that the jbl 530s were heavily discounted at times and recommended them based on that price.. Disregarding the same business model at nht .. Looks like cherry picking to me....

 

[whazzup]

Yes exactly.. So what's your point? Like i said above the reviewer certainly knew that the jbl 530s were heavily discounted at times and recommended them based on that price.. Disregarding the same business model at nht .. Looks like cherry picking to me....

Er... No that's not cherry picking. Amir has always made known his 'affiliation' with harman and their products. And told his readers in his reviews so that they are welcome to say that he is biased.

Sure he may mention certain products have discounts. Doesn't mean he is duty bound to keep track of the discounts on all his reviewed products for you.

 

[leeroy 85032]

Er... No that's not cherry picking. Amir has always made known his 'affiliation' with harman and their products. And told his readers in his reviews so that they are welcome to say that he is biased.

Sure he may mention certain products have discounts. Doesn't mean he is duty bound to keep track of the discounts on all his reviewed products for you.

that's your opinion .. mine is different.. i'll leave it there for each to judge on it's own merits ...

 

[whazzup]

that's your opinion .. mine is different.. i'll leave it there for each to judge on it's own merits ...

Judge on its own merits...? Sounds like you're onto some big conspiracy. Have fun with your opinion then.

 

[leeroy 85032]

Judge on its own merits...? Sounds like you're onto some big conspiracy. Have fun with your opinion then.

no .. no conspiracy theory here.. i just find your "leader" a bit more flawed than you do...

 

[thewas]

To tell the truth, the panther score is a bit hard when compared to the Fostex PM-03 which Amir seemed to like, here are the estimated in room responses of both normalised to a similar loudness:

the distortion plots of both

and the Harman scores calculated by @MZKM

Fostex
Preference Rating
SCORE: 3.3
SCORE w/ sub: 6.6

NHT
Preference Rating
SCORE: 3.4
SCORE w/ sub: 6.7

But this is normal and bound to happen at subjective overall rating.

 

[leeroy 85032]

To tell the truth, the panther score is a bit hard when compared to the Fostex PM-03 which Amir seemed to like, here are the estimated in room responses of both normalised to a similar loudness:

View attachment 100963

the distortion plots of both

View attachment 100965

View attachment 100966

and the Harman scores calculated by @MZKM

Fostex
Preference Rating
SCORE: 3.3
SCORE w/ sub: 6.6

NHT
Preference Rating
SCORE: 3.4
SCORE w/ sub: 6.7

But this is normal and bound to happen at subjective overall rating.

dude has serious (in ) consistency issues .. i know nobody is perfect , but all you have to do is look at the history...

 

[MZKM]

To tell the truth, the panther score is a bit hard when compared to the Fostex PM-03 which Amir seemed to like, here are the estimated in room responses of both normalised to a similar loudness:

View attachment 100963

the distortion plots of both

View attachment 100965

View attachment 100966

and the Harman scores calculated by @MZKM

Fostex
Preference Rating
SCORE: 3.3
SCORE w/ sub: 6.6

NHT
Preference Rating
SCORE: 3.4
SCORE w/ sub: 6.7

But this is normal and bound to happen at subjective overall rating.

Price is a factor, the Fostex was $90/pair and are active. The NHT is passive and MSRP is $300/pair. Also, Amir tested the Fostex as a desktop speaker and the NHT as a regular bookshelf.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

I give a lot of credit to the NHT Super Zero 2.1 for finally convincing me that speaker dynamics are critical to my audio listening enjoyment. To get anything close to room filling sound I ended up with a 160 Hz sub crossover. That meant the sub couldn't be placed in an optimized location but had to be positioned between the mains due to localization. This will soon be corrected with the acquisition of more dynamic speakers that can cross at a proper 80 Hz with sub moved to its optimum room position.

It's an OK speaker within its limitations but the market in its price range has gotten a lot more competitive since it was introduced.

 

[leeroy 85032]

Price is a factor, the Fostex was $90/pair and are active. The NHT is passive and MSRP is $300/pair.

but can widely be aquired (amazon ) for $60 -70 a speaker..$300 isn't even a realistic price.. well maybe for a sucker...

 

[thewas]

Price is a factor, the Fostex was $90/pair and are active. The NHT is passive and MSRP is $300/pair. Also, Amir tested the Fostex as a desktop speaker and the NHT as a regular bookshelf.

Sure price matters, although you can't compare Drop with regular prices, I see NHT being sold right now at an US shop for 91$ per piece and Fostex for around $160 per pair, so more comparable.

Also, Amir tested the Fostex as a desktop speaker and the NHT as a regular bookshelf.

Which imho is a mistake as a loudspeaker called "2.1" obviously shouldn't be used as a regular bookshelf.