FWIW...my JBL705p's that I have mine hooked up to have no problems with delivering plenty of volume.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
New SMSL M500
- Thread starter killervidra
- Start date
FWIW...my JBL705p's that I have mine hooked up to have no problems with delivering plenty of volume.
NielsMayer
Active Member
My M500: SW 1.4, HW 1.2 2019-7-28
With a fresh start and a new morning, I've finally figured out some things.
(1) the volume issue only occurs over USB. Coax input delivers full and expected volume, unexpectedly....
(1.5) Hooking M500 to NVIDIA shield USB, delivers same volume levels issue requiring turning it to max 40 to get normal listening level... although i just turned down a compressed and max-volume news channel to "30" to achieve background listening level. "30" on SPDIF or optical would be painfully loud. Meanwhile "40" on USB for MQA classical music is absolutely positively too quiet to listen to.... #fail
(2) given this, you have to be really careful switching between USB (with volume maxed to 40 to get a normal listening level), vs coax or optical that give loud listening at "20". #fail
(3) did something to get it into a state where it emitted constant noise alongside the low-volume USB audio. #fail
(4) it sounds great and it's going back on its return-date. :-(
My previous hunch of it using fake-balanced outputs still stands. However the consumer/pro levels issue is not relevant as it was clearly delivering +4 dBU when i accidentally switched to playing SPDIF stream with volume at "40" -- fortunately I had quick reflexes and the full-power sound-burst was limited to maybe a 1/4 of a second.
W/r/t the UI bug, it is not completely straightforward to trigger, but it is repeatable -- have USB connected and playing, don't have opt2 plugged in. (i can't test if having it plugged in changes anything b/c of the cheap, and waiting-to-break, optical port door being stuck open and the optical cable not snapping in properly). #fail
starting with USB playback
(1) click->input->opt2->longpress->longpress (back to main menu shows opt 2, "no signal")
(2) click->input->usb->longpress->longpress (back to main menu, sound output is from usb, but display shows "opt2" #fail )
I wish they used the old fashioned optical ports with the separate plug that are much longer-lasting... actually i wish it didn't have optical at all because optical has no place in an HD DAC due to jitter, and there should have been IIS and AES/EBU instead on this class of DAC. #fail
Since I now have it hooked up to NVIDIA shield USB, another observation:
The official android-TV Tidal App does not trigger the "blue" MQA decoding display on the M500, unlike what can easily be achieved via Tidal2 plugin in Kodi on Linux (just be sure volume is at 100% to be "bit perfect" enough for the MQA decoder to recognize the stream). The issue with the shield is that it upsamples to 192k and mixes the audio stream alongside all the other android notifications etc -- which is lame. I have seen no android TV apps which allow sending audio to a specific DAC while allowing all the usual android crap to come out of HDMI. Side-loaded USB Audio Player Pro can do it, but it is a huge pain in the ass, requires rebooting, and can induce crashes or lockups when it seizes control of the USB DAC while android wants to do the same.... The Tidal App would need to do this and it doesn't....
And even though it displays "master" in the App on Android the same exact tracks don't sound as glorious as they do on Linux with the MQA light activated. If that blue light is a placebo effect, well, then it's a pretty convincing one.... And I came into this not really liking the idea of MQA, it's proprietaryness, or the fact that it's just DRM for HD audio being pitched as some kind of amazing consumer advantage. I'd much prefer 192k/24 flac files from Qobuz, but from what I can tell, they just got stomped on by the music industry for all the different rippers and copiers people have built for that service -- to the point where they apparently just nuked all their linux 3rd party client support and have some great grand new scheme. Because it was all working fine for customers and clearly they got thrown the book by various record companies that hate the idea of a non-US media conglomerate getting into the game.
Well let me know -- qobuz -- when you got it all figured it out -- but not on my dime. Their decision forced me to reopen my just-closed tidal account because in the prior month Tidal had somehow nuked linux access through Kodi and Strawberry Music Player and i closed my account in protest. Now Qobuz did the same -- permanently w/o possibility of fixing -- and i closed that account and back to Tidal. Good thing there's Soundiiz to let me transfer >>1000 albums and artists and >>500 tracks and playlists like this back to tidal again:
https://listen.tidal.com/playlist/d50fc9ff-d55d-4581-956c-8de487608b1d
https://listen.tidal.com/playlist/6bcf22c8-3245-451b-aa43-8007621f67f1
(other people compiling weekly-updated playlists of musics played by Gilles Petersen on BBC6 or worldwide-fm on spotify, which soundiiz moved to Tidal, getting about 87% of the original tracks, still over 1500 songs, all at better quality than spotify, and i just use my spotify free account for soundiiz to snatch those other people's auto-gen'd playlists).
-- Niels.
With a fresh start and a new morning, I've finally figured out some things.
(1) the volume issue only occurs over USB. Coax input delivers full and expected volume, unexpectedly....
(1.5) Hooking M500 to NVIDIA shield USB, delivers same volume levels issue requiring turning it to max 40 to get normal listening level... although i just turned down a compressed and max-volume news channel to "30" to achieve background listening level. "30" on SPDIF or optical would be painfully loud. Meanwhile "40" on USB for MQA classical music is absolutely positively too quiet to listen to.... #fail
(2) given this, you have to be really careful switching between USB (with volume maxed to 40 to get a normal listening level), vs coax or optical that give loud listening at "20". #fail
(3) did something to get it into a state where it emitted constant noise alongside the low-volume USB audio. #fail
(4) it sounds great and it's going back on its return-date. :-(
My previous hunch of it using fake-balanced outputs still stands. However the consumer/pro levels issue is not relevant as it was clearly delivering +4 dBU when i accidentally switched to playing SPDIF stream with volume at "40" -- fortunately I had quick reflexes and the full-power sound-burst was limited to maybe a 1/4 of a second.
W/r/t the UI bug, it is not completely straightforward to trigger, but it is repeatable -- have USB connected and playing, don't have opt2 plugged in. (i can't test if having it plugged in changes anything b/c of the cheap, and waiting-to-break, optical port door being stuck open and the optical cable not snapping in properly). #fail
starting with USB playback
(1) click->input->opt2->longpress->longpress (back to main menu shows opt 2, "no signal")
(2) click->input->usb->longpress->longpress (back to main menu, sound output is from usb, but display shows "opt2" #fail )
I wish they used the old fashioned optical ports with the separate plug that are much longer-lasting... actually i wish it didn't have optical at all because optical has no place in an HD DAC due to jitter, and there should have been IIS and AES/EBU instead on this class of DAC. #fail
Since I now have it hooked up to NVIDIA shield USB, another observation:
The official android-TV Tidal App does not trigger the "blue" MQA decoding display on the M500, unlike what can easily be achieved via Tidal2 plugin in Kodi on Linux (just be sure volume is at 100% to be "bit perfect" enough for the MQA decoder to recognize the stream). The issue with the shield is that it upsamples to 192k and mixes the audio stream alongside all the other android notifications etc -- which is lame. I have seen no android TV apps which allow sending audio to a specific DAC while allowing all the usual android crap to come out of HDMI. Side-loaded USB Audio Player Pro can do it, but it is a huge pain in the ass, requires rebooting, and can induce crashes or lockups when it seizes control of the USB DAC while android wants to do the same.... The Tidal App would need to do this and it doesn't....
And even though it displays "master" in the App on Android the same exact tracks don't sound as glorious as they do on Linux with the MQA light activated. If that blue light is a placebo effect, well, then it's a pretty convincing one.... And I came into this not really liking the idea of MQA, it's proprietaryness, or the fact that it's just DRM for HD audio being pitched as some kind of amazing consumer advantage. I'd much prefer 192k/24 flac files from Qobuz, but from what I can tell, they just got stomped on by the music industry for all the different rippers and copiers people have built for that service -- to the point where they apparently just nuked all their linux 3rd party client support and have some great grand new scheme. Because it was all working fine for customers and clearly they got thrown the book by various record companies that hate the idea of a non-US media conglomerate getting into the game.
Well let me know -- qobuz -- when you got it all figured it out -- but not on my dime. Their decision forced me to reopen my just-closed tidal account because in the prior month Tidal had somehow nuked linux access through Kodi and Strawberry Music Player and i closed my account in protest. Now Qobuz did the same -- permanently w/o possibility of fixing -- and i closed that account and back to Tidal. Good thing there's Soundiiz to let me transfer >>1000 albums and artists and >>500 tracks and playlists like this back to tidal again:
https://listen.tidal.com/playlist/d50fc9ff-d55d-4581-956c-8de487608b1d
https://listen.tidal.com/playlist/6bcf22c8-3245-451b-aa43-8007621f67f1
(other people compiling weekly-updated playlists of musics played by Gilles Petersen on BBC6 or worldwide-fm on spotify, which soundiiz moved to Tidal, getting about 87% of the original tracks, still over 1500 songs, all at better quality than spotify, and i just use my spotify free account for soundiiz to snatch those other people's auto-gen'd playlists).
-- Niels.
I look forward to Amir's review. Hopefully he'll get one soon.
NielsMayer
Active Member
I'm hoping the unit Amir reviews has the USB volume level fix, otherwise it won't be able to report fair numbers.
By the way, I hooked the unit up to my LG Quad DAC device running Android 8. With USB Audio Player Pro and Tidal, I see playback of "John Coltrane Blue World" with MQA "magenta" light on. USB Audio Player Pro display shows "Direct 96k MQA File 192k 24 bit 1398kbps."
So what's the difference between the "blue" MQA light I see from Linux/Kodi and the "magenta" seen on UAPP? Well looking at the "info" from the Linux Kodi player on Yatse android remote app, it indicates that, just like with MQA streams through Kodi into a non-MQA DAC -- 48k 1414kbps."
So I guess "blue" means you're getting an MQA stream but not at the maximum sample rate available. "Magenta" means you're getting an MQA stream at it's source bitrate. And of course the displayed sample rate like "192k" shown alongside the MQA icon is marketing BS -- it's the rate at which the source was recorded in the studio. It is not the rate at which you're actually getting playback.
Anybody know the trick in Linux to get the full 96K stream from Tidal in https://github.com/arnesongit/plugin.audio.tidal2 ?
By the way, I hooked the unit up to my LG Quad DAC device running Android 8. With USB Audio Player Pro and Tidal, I see playback of "John Coltrane Blue World" with MQA "magenta" light on. USB Audio Player Pro display shows "Direct 96k MQA File 192k 24 bit 1398kbps."
So what's the difference between the "blue" MQA light I see from Linux/Kodi and the "magenta" seen on UAPP? Well looking at the "info" from the Linux Kodi player on Yatse android remote app, it indicates that, just like with MQA streams through Kodi into a non-MQA DAC -- 48k 1414kbps."
So I guess "blue" means you're getting an MQA stream but not at the maximum sample rate available. "Magenta" means you're getting an MQA stream at it's source bitrate. And of course the displayed sample rate like "192k" shown alongside the MQA icon is marketing BS -- it's the rate at which the source was recorded in the studio. It is not the rate at which you're actually getting playback.
Anybody know the trick in Linux to get the full 96K stream from Tidal in https://github.com/arnesongit/plugin.audio.tidal2 ?
NielsMayer
Active Member
Ok, here's one more thing I know. In Linux (and therefore in android), it's talking to the M500 in format S32_LE.
Therefore, I wonder if I can solve volume issue by using 16 bit source and using S16_LE...
or maybe changing "Feedback Format = 16.16" , which has me suspecting the problem is that 24 bit audio frames are downshifted to 16 and then misaligned to 24 during playback, giving the mathematically calculable volume difference noted in playback between other inputs and the USB.
I'm wondering if this is a linux/android/alsa -only mistake and not seen by people using Windows or Apple??
Therefore, I wonder if I can solve volume issue by using 16 bit source and using S16_LE...
or maybe changing "Feedback Format = 16.16" , which has me suspecting the problem is that 24 bit audio frames are downshifted to 16 and then misaligned to 24 during playback, giving the mathematically calculable volume difference noted in playback between other inputs and the USB.
I'm wondering if this is a linux/android/alsa -only mistake and not seen by people using Windows or Apple??
SMSL SMSL M500 at usb-0000:00:14.0-2, high speed : USB Audio
Playback:
Status: Running
Interface = 1
Altset = 1
Packet Size = 72
Momentary freq = 47997 Hz (0x5.ffe8)
Feedback Format = 16.16
Interface 1
Altset 1
Format: S32_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Interface 1
Altset 2
Format: S16_LE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
Data packet interval: 125 us
Interface 1
Altset 3
Format: SPECIAL DSD_U32_BE
Channels: 2
Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
Data packet interval: 125 us
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2018
- Messages
- 315
- Likes
- 699
Aikaveikko
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2019
- Messages
- 7
- Likes
- 0
So, is ORFS even possible with a PC running the Tidal app?
As I understand it, if it's not ORFS, it's somewhat of an incomplete mqa (lossy?)?
As I understand it, if it's not ORFS, it's somewhat of an incomplete mqa (lossy?)?
If you let tidal do the software decoding
Switch passthrough off then dac light is magenta
How many of these have been sent back
Aikaveikko
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2019
- Messages
- 7
- Likes
- 0
That setting has no effect on the display.
777
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2019
- Messages
- 495
- Likes
- 378
Is that the same spec as been released
As looks like a what hifi review where they miss out what's wrong with items
It would be more useful smsl saying theres a firmware upgrade to sort what people are finding
Don't all well measured dac's sound the same
As looks like a what hifi review where they miss out what's wrong with items
It would be more useful smsl saying theres a firmware upgrade to sort what people are finding
Don't all well measured dac's sound the same
Last edited:
SoyBean0809
Member
Well I've bought the M500 and I just did some test on MQA using Foobar and Audirvana on Windows 10. (I didn't try Tidal since I couldn't access to the official website, due to poor network maybe, if possible I would like to try it later)
I downloaded some sample tracks from 2L Hires Test Banch, of which the original source is DXD(24bit/352.8KHz), and I also get some other MQA albums (their original source are in different format which will be shown later) from my friend.
First I use Foobar, which doesn't support MQA software decoding, but as MQA is packed inside a flac file(usually 24bit/44.1 or 48KHz), if you are using a dac which doesn't support MQA decoding, the file will be played as normal 24bit/44.1 or 48KHz PCM. But since the M500 has MQA capability, the PCM stream pass to the dac via ASIO will be detected as MQA. I play a sample track from 2L and here is the setting and info:
Sorry for the interface in Chinese, but we can just focus on some information. On the left side is the OUTPUT DEVICE setting, make sure you install the driver from SMSL, then the "ASIO : USB DAC ASIO" or "DSD : ASIO : USB DAC ASIO" will apprear. (Driver name may vary in different system, so just try and find out which is the dac). Just choose one of them, with or without the "DSD" prefix won't cause any difference here. And on the right side is the information of the track, which shows the file is a 24bit 44.1KHz flac, and Foobar does not know if it is a MQA file or not. Then just click to play the track and here is the screen on M500:
Just ignore the atom amp hanging weirdly above the M500
but there comes the lovely MQA sign with a blue dot beside it and below it shows the sample rate of the original source which is 352.8KHz(DXD).
Then I try the MQA album Lover by Taylor Swift which was provided by my friend, the file is also 24bit 44.1KHz flac but this time shows a different situation:
The color of the photo is a bit different from what I see in real world, so I describe it in words - the MQA sign is still on, but with a green dot next to it, and the sample rate shows 44.1KHz which is the same as the flac file. So here comes two questions. First, what does blue, green (and magenta which will be shown later) actually mean. Second, the track from 2L shows different sample rate between foobar and the dac, why doesn't this?
For the two question, I searched on the internet and looked into the official website of MQA and finally reach to the answer that as long as the MQA sign is shown on the dac (on the screen or by LED indicator, etc.), it indicates that the original source is played (though maybe a little bit lossy since MQA IMO is made possible by using a special method (they call it 'Music Origami') to compress high-sample-rate into 24bit 44.1 or 48KHz file which will make the size much smaller), no matter what color the dot on its side is. (I mainly refer to this link: http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/science-mqa/mqa-playback/
and if you have different opinion towards it after reading, I am looking forward to know so feel free to discuss below
)
The green or blue dots instead are used to show the provenance of the track, which I refer to this link: http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/mqa-philosophy/mqa-authentication-and-quality/
I find the statement there pretty clear so I just copy it and paste it here:
"
Provenance and technical standards are completely different things. A music file can be altered after artist release, irrespective of the technology used. Provenance is indicated when MQA is played back.
The magenta dot indicates something different which will be discussed later in the Audirvana section. So now I know that the track from 2L is a MQA STUDIO file which make sure that it sounds just like what come out of the studio while Taylor's album isn't. I asked my friend and he said that the files are ripped from a mqa cd which may be the reason.
I then tried album Nevermind by Nirvana, and here is the result:
This has a blue dot and shows 96KHz, which is reasonable since the flac file has a sample rate of 48KHz.
So I just finished the Foobar test and move on to test with Audirvana, which is said to be an application partner on the MQA website (the left one):
Here is the DAC setting page, I am not sure if these are the default settings but I will just go on.
Just focus on the two most important settings - "Auto-detect MQA devices" and "DAC not detected as MQA, use as Not MQA". According to the website, media players with MQA support will be able to do the first "unfold" of the file, not requiring any hardware, thus double the sample rate of the file, that means if I play a 44.1KHz file, any DAC no matter if it supports MQA or not, will play in 88.2KHz, and here is the result when playing the 2L sample track:
As you can see, the media player recognized the file as MQA and shows the original sample rate 352.8KHz on the left side, but output 88.2KHz stream to the DAC, which is confirmed on M500's screen, no MQA sign there. So I think that Audirvana doesn't recognize M500 as a MQA device automatically, since this result shows that only the software is doing the MQA decoding.
Then I just turn the automatic detect off and choose the other setting manually. There are 3 different settings there - Not MQA, MQA Renderer and MQA Decoder:
I've seen many discussion about the Renderer so I decide to give it a try first, and here is the result playing the 2L track:
And here comes the MQA sign with the magenta dot next to it, and the original sample rate under it. So I again go to the website for explaination and find this statement:
"
MQA Core: The first unfold of the Origami recovers all the direct music-related information and makes it available for either analogue or digital output at 88.2 or 96 kHz.
Sound quality is higher than from ‘No’ or ‘Authenticating’ decoders but lower than a ‘Full’ decoder. Products containing an MQA decoder may provide a digital output of either the undecoded stream or the Core output – providing they are passed with bit accuracy. The MQA Core signal is also preconditioned for generic DACs.
MQA Renderer: This new class of device can take a bit-accurate signal from a Core decoder (containing buried information on how to proceed) and complete the final unfold in its analog context.
An MQA Renderer will indicate ‘stream lock’ but is not able to decode an MQA stream or Authenticate it.
This type of device is available for portable applications (such as active headphones or portable amplifiers) and for silicon integration.
MQA Renderers provide analog output only through their managed D/A conversion.
"
So the truth of "Renderer" is that Audirvana, the software, does the first unfold and produce a 88.2KHz output, which is called "MQA Core", then the DAC do the following unfolds base on this signal and eventually produce the original sample rate.
Finally, I tried the "MQA Decoder" setting which I think refer to this statement on the website:
"
Full Decoder: A full decoder includes: stream Authentication, Origami unfold to Core and then further unfolds with precise file and platform-specific DAC compensation and management according to the hierarchical target. This is the highest possible sound quality.
"
But weird thing happened:
It displays a usb sign which shows that it is not getting MQA signals. And as I continued to listen, the MQA sign suddenly jumped out but immediately went back to showing this usb sign. Fortunately, I went through the settings and finally fix it, here's where the problem comes from:
Actually I don't know what does it mean, but I suggest this may affect the digital signal going to the DAC, which will make the DAC not able to recognize it as MQA. Turning them off solves the problem, and now I have the MQA sign with blue dot, just like when I was using Foobar:
Thinking a little deeper into this problem, I went back to Foobar and did another test. When playing the MQA track, I dragged the volume control of Foobar from max to a little bit lower. Immediately the MQA sign on the DAC screen changed to the usb sign, and this confirmed my suggestion that any change of the MQA signal will make the DAC unable to recognize it, since the software volume control change the volume by modifying the bits value of every sample.
As for me, MQA is more than higher audio quality and smaller file size, but the authentication it brings with. If the file shows MQA sign with blue dot next to it I am sure that it is the original sound comes from the studio and not been modified by someone during propagation. I also strongly suggest SMSL to give more detail in M500's user manual, at least put the website which explains how MQA works on it so that someone who is curious about it can find the answer by himself.
So this concludes my test. If someone find it useful I will be very happy. I am new to this forum, so if there is anything inappropriate in this post please let me know And if you find any mistake feel free to point it out, I will be so glad since MQA is a new thing and I would like to learn more about it too!
I downloaded some sample tracks from 2L Hires Test Banch, of which the original source is DXD(24bit/352.8KHz), and I also get some other MQA albums (their original source are in different format which will be shown later) from my friend.
First I use Foobar, which doesn't support MQA software decoding, but as MQA is packed inside a flac file(usually 24bit/44.1 or 48KHz), if you are using a dac which doesn't support MQA decoding, the file will be played as normal 24bit/44.1 or 48KHz PCM. But since the M500 has MQA capability, the PCM stream pass to the dac via ASIO will be detected as MQA. I play a sample track from 2L and here is the setting and info:
Sorry for the interface in Chinese, but we can just focus on some information. On the left side is the OUTPUT DEVICE setting, make sure you install the driver from SMSL, then the "ASIO : USB DAC ASIO" or "DSD : ASIO : USB DAC ASIO" will apprear. (Driver name may vary in different system, so just try and find out which is the dac). Just choose one of them, with or without the "DSD" prefix won't cause any difference here. And on the right side is the information of the track, which shows the file is a 24bit 44.1KHz flac, and Foobar does not know if it is a MQA file or not. Then just click to play the track and here is the screen on M500:
Just ignore the atom amp hanging weirdly above the M500
but there comes the lovely MQA sign with a blue dot beside it and below it shows the sample rate of the original source which is 352.8KHz(DXD).Then I try the MQA album Lover by Taylor Swift which was provided by my friend, the file is also 24bit 44.1KHz flac but this time shows a different situation:
The color of the photo is a bit different from what I see in real world, so I describe it in words - the MQA sign is still on, but with a green dot next to it, and the sample rate shows 44.1KHz which is the same as the flac file. So here comes two questions. First, what does blue, green (and magenta which will be shown later) actually mean. Second, the track from 2L shows different sample rate between foobar and the dac, why doesn't this?
For the two question, I searched on the internet and looked into the official website of MQA and finally reach to the answer that as long as the MQA sign is shown on the dac (on the screen or by LED indicator, etc.), it indicates that the original source is played (though maybe a little bit lossy since MQA IMO is made possible by using a special method (they call it 'Music Origami') to compress high-sample-rate into 24bit 44.1 or 48KHz file which will make the size much smaller), no matter what color the dot on its side is. (I mainly refer to this link: http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/science-mqa/mqa-playback/
and if you have different opinion towards it after reading, I am looking forward to know so feel free to discuss below
)The green or blue dots instead are used to show the provenance of the track, which I refer to this link: http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/mqa-philosophy/mqa-authentication-and-quality/
I find the statement there pretty clear so I just copy it and paste it here:
"
Provenance and technical standards are completely different things. A music file can be altered after artist release, irrespective of the technology used. Provenance is indicated when MQA is played back.
- The MQA ‘Studio’ (blue light) gives confirmation directly from mastering engineers, producers or artists to their listeners. MQA Studio authenticates that the sound you are hearing is exactly as played in the studio when the music was completed and, by implication, that this is also the definitive version of the recording at that point in time.
- A second level, ‘MQA’ (green light) is available to indicate that although the stream is genuine, provenance may be uncertain or that it is not yet the final release.
The magenta dot indicates something different which will be discussed later in the Audirvana section. So now I know that the track from 2L is a MQA STUDIO file which make sure that it sounds just like what come out of the studio while Taylor's album isn't. I asked my friend and he said that the files are ripped from a mqa cd which may be the reason.
I then tried album Nevermind by Nirvana, and here is the result:
This has a blue dot and shows 96KHz, which is reasonable since the flac file has a sample rate of 48KHz.
So I just finished the Foobar test and move on to test with Audirvana, which is said to be an application partner on the MQA website (the left one):
Here is the DAC setting page, I am not sure if these are the default settings but I will just go on.
Just focus on the two most important settings - "Auto-detect MQA devices" and "DAC not detected as MQA, use as Not MQA". According to the website, media players with MQA support will be able to do the first "unfold" of the file, not requiring any hardware, thus double the sample rate of the file, that means if I play a 44.1KHz file, any DAC no matter if it supports MQA or not, will play in 88.2KHz, and here is the result when playing the 2L sample track:
As you can see, the media player recognized the file as MQA and shows the original sample rate 352.8KHz on the left side, but output 88.2KHz stream to the DAC, which is confirmed on M500's screen, no MQA sign there. So I think that Audirvana doesn't recognize M500 as a MQA device automatically, since this result shows that only the software is doing the MQA decoding.
Then I just turn the automatic detect off and choose the other setting manually. There are 3 different settings there - Not MQA, MQA Renderer and MQA Decoder:
I've seen many discussion about the Renderer so I decide to give it a try first, and here is the result playing the 2L track:
And here comes the MQA sign with the magenta dot next to it, and the original sample rate under it. So I again go to the website for explaination and find this statement:
"
MQA Core: The first unfold of the Origami recovers all the direct music-related information and makes it available for either analogue or digital output at 88.2 or 96 kHz.
Sound quality is higher than from ‘No’ or ‘Authenticating’ decoders but lower than a ‘Full’ decoder. Products containing an MQA decoder may provide a digital output of either the undecoded stream or the Core output – providing they are passed with bit accuracy. The MQA Core signal is also preconditioned for generic DACs.
MQA Renderer: This new class of device can take a bit-accurate signal from a Core decoder (containing buried information on how to proceed) and complete the final unfold in its analog context.
An MQA Renderer will indicate ‘stream lock’ but is not able to decode an MQA stream or Authenticate it.
This type of device is available for portable applications (such as active headphones or portable amplifiers) and for silicon integration.
MQA Renderers provide analog output only through their managed D/A conversion.
"
So the truth of "Renderer" is that Audirvana, the software, does the first unfold and produce a 88.2KHz output, which is called "MQA Core", then the DAC do the following unfolds base on this signal and eventually produce the original sample rate.
Finally, I tried the "MQA Decoder" setting which I think refer to this statement on the website:
"
Full Decoder: A full decoder includes: stream Authentication, Origami unfold to Core and then further unfolds with precise file and platform-specific DAC compensation and management according to the hierarchical target. This is the highest possible sound quality.
"
But weird thing happened:
It displays a usb sign which shows that it is not getting MQA signals. And as I continued to listen, the MQA sign suddenly jumped out but immediately went back to showing this usb sign. Fortunately, I went through the settings and finally fix it, here's where the problem comes from:
Actually I don't know what does it mean, but I suggest this may affect the digital signal going to the DAC, which will make the DAC not able to recognize it as MQA. Turning them off solves the problem, and now I have the MQA sign with blue dot, just like when I was using Foobar:
Thinking a little deeper into this problem, I went back to Foobar and did another test. When playing the MQA track, I dragged the volume control of Foobar from max to a little bit lower. Immediately the MQA sign on the DAC screen changed to the usb sign, and this confirmed my suggestion that any change of the MQA signal will make the DAC unable to recognize it, since the software volume control change the volume by modifying the bits value of every sample.
As for me, MQA is more than higher audio quality and smaller file size, but the authentication it brings with. If the file shows MQA sign with blue dot next to it I am sure that it is the original sound comes from the studio and not been modified by someone during propagation. I also strongly suggest SMSL to give more detail in M500's user manual, at least put the website which explains how MQA works on it so that someone who is curious about it can find the answer by himself.
So this concludes my test. If someone find it useful I will be very happy. I am new to this forum, so if there is anything inappropriate in this post please let me know
And if you find any mistake feel free to point it out, I will be so glad since MQA is a new thing and I would like to learn more about it too!so, with amazon HD, i don't really have much use for MQA after this month, and my bottleneck is the active DSP section of my speakers, so i'm moving to the much cheaper SMSL SU-8 assuming i get a non-defective one. however, i do recommend the m500. i really liked it, and if it weren't just a tad more DAC than i can audible distinguish between, i would have kept it.
Why do you put the Sabaj D5 above the M500 for the extra money? I'm interested in both and to be honest MQA doesn't really mean anything to me. Most important factor for me is a good balanced output to connect direct to my Elac Navis AR51s and a good USB interface.
I'm also not concerned about the headphone output, I may connect a pair of Shure SE425s now and then but it's not the most important.
If I understand what I've read so far the D5 has better power supply, I2S input, better balanced output and balanced headphone output but the M500 has a better USB input which handles MQA and an extra optical input. Right now I have an Audiolab M-DAC and the USB input is driving me mad, had to give up on it and use optical.
SoyBean0809
Member
Some say that the d5 is actually design and made by smsl, or at least has some relation with the company. Looking inside the two product I actually find some similar design (such as the amp part). So assuming this, I think this two will likely measure similarly, maybe the d5 will be a little better due to better power supply. Also the d5 has lls input and xlr4 output but in my opinion form factor and weight is an absolute advantage of the m500. It easily fits my carry on bag and I may even bring it with me on a trip. I think both device support USB quite well on windows10 (there are some problems with Linux mentioned in this thread, but I am not a Linux user so I cannot test it). I don't know if Amir will post the m500 measurement in a few days, so I think it maybe wiser to wait for the test result.
By the way, the m500 actually sells even cheaper in China, if transfer to EUR at 8:1 rate that's no more than 300EUR, while the d5 doesn't sell in China at all, which means buying the m500 is my obvious choice...
Thanks for the response, I'll be interested to hear what Amir thinks of the balanced output, that's vital for me. The issues people are reporting with low volume also puts me off.
Also seems to be good prices for both on hifi express:
https://hifi-express.com/products/the-m500-pre-sale
https://hifi-express.com/products/sabaj-d5-audio-dac-ess9038pro-heaphone-amplifier
Last edited:
Similar threads
