Parasound Halo Integrated DAC Upgrade

[AnonEmouse]

This is my first post here so please refrain from summary execution.

A couple of years ago I picked up a used Parasound Halo Integrated. I believe it to be a first generation. It popped a PS cap and I sent it back to Parasound for repair. Since then, it has performed well with no issues.

I had been reading about music streaming and the various services but didn't know if I would like it and didn't want to spend a lot of money only to decide I didn't. I purchased a WiiM Pro and subscribed to both Qoboz and Amazon Music. The Pro has additional inputs allowing me to connect the TV via Toslink and the WiiM Pro to the Parasound also via Toslink and use the DAC in the Parasound.

The Parasound uses the ESS Sabre32 Reference ES9018K2M chip that, given the apparent ESS nomenclature, suggests it is old compared to the ES9039MSPRO or ES9038PRO. I do understand that implementation is generally more critical than the specific chip. That said, digital is not my forte so making usable sense of information beyond a general understanding of the measurements is difficult.

More specifically, what (if anything), do I stand to gain by adding say, an SMSL DO300 or M500 MKIII and using the XLR outputs into the Parasound? Should I expect these DACs to outperform the one in the Parasound? Should there be a noticeable improvement in the sound?

 

[tc2007]

In my experience, adding even a cheaper DAC like Topping E30 to a built in DAC on an expensive integrated like my own Arcam Music Solo MK2 ($2000 MSRP) will make it noticeably sound better. It's has a more deeper bass, everything sound more crisper etc. etc. Now the DAC on Arcam itself sounds great, much better than what I can hear on any AVR / BlueSound Node / Sonos etc. But the Topping takes it to the next level.

So yes you would benefit from the amp muscle of the Parasound by adding an external DAC. If I had to move up the DAC chain, I would get a Geshelli J2 or even a Denafrips Ares II.

 

[Beave]

I think it's very unlikely that there will be a real audible difference with a new DAC.

You'd be going from a DAC with noise and distortion below audible levels to a DAC with noise and distortion even more below audible levels.

 

[JustJones]

I've only seen the manufacturer specs of the Parasound integrated, nothing independent but as a usual rule of thumb, amplifiers have worse THD+N than dacs so I doubt you would hear any difference running a different well measuring dac through the same amp section. In other words your amp is your bottleneck.

 

[tc2007]

There will be because the DAC is not just a DAC, there are OPAmps etc. @Anonamemouse I would recommend getting an external DAC from a place with a good return policy in case you don't find a fifference.

 

[AnonEmouse]

This is why I'm asking the question. For those with more familiarity with digital measurements, here are Stereophile's measurements on the Parasound Hint from 2015:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/parasound-halo-integrated-integrated-amplifier-measurements

Both the SMSL M500 MKIII and the DO300 have been measured here at AS. To my layman's eyes, both SMSL DACs appear to be substantially better performers. Is it reasonable to expect an audible improvement in sound quality if I should decide to switch DACs?

 

[tc2007]

BTW, all these people saying all the DACs sound the same. If that were the case, why would people buy RME / Denafrips / Chord / Geshelli and many more expensive brands out there? Are these people stupid and want to flush their money down the toilet? Cables I can understand but DACs do sound different across price range and their topology.

 

[JustJones]

This is why I'm asking the question. For those with more familiarity with digital measurements, here are Stereophile's measurements on the Parasound Hint from 2015:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/parasound-halo-integrated-integrated-amplifier-measurements

Both the SMSL M500 MKIII and the DO300 have been measured here at AS. To my layman's eyes, both SMSL DACs appear to be substantially better performers. Is it reasonable to expect an audible improvement in sound quality if I should decide to switch DACs?

The stereophile measurements are showing you what I said, the amplifier is the bottleneck not the DAC section. As long as you keep the amp within its specs, speakers that stay above 2 Ohm it looks pretty good. I don't see how running a different dac through the same amp section going to change the sound. I guess you could buy one of those R2R dacs that measure like garbage and you might hear a difference.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

I've only seen the manufacturer specs of the Parasound integrated, nothing independent but as a usual rule of thumb, amplifiers have worse THD+N than dacs so I doubt you would hear any difference running a different well measuring dac through the same amp section. In other words your amp is your bottleneck.

Yes ........ and the speakers, and the room, and the ambient noise floor, etc.

The operative limitation here is the listener's threshold of hearing. If you have a mediocre DAC that exhibits characteristics below your threshold of hearing, then using another DAC, even the very best one in the world, will not give you, the listener, any improvement, because you won't be able to hear it.

Although there are many scam artists out there preying on gullible people, a blind comparison, performed under rigorous control, will prove interesting.

Jim

 

[Beave]

There will be because the DAC is not just a DAC, there are OPAmps etc. @Anonamemouse I would recommend getting an external DAC from a place with a good return policy in case you don't find a fifference.

Op amps, just like DACs, perform at levels well beyond what a person can hear. And they're cheap. It would take an incompetent designer to choose an op amp that causes audible degradation.

 

[Anonamemouse]

This is my first post here so please refrain from summary execution.

Please request a change in username.

 

[TonyJZX]

I think the consensus here is that for most products designed in the last 20yrs from reputatble firms... the performance will be largely indistinguishable in a true blind test.

ie. that Parasound pre or that Denon or Yamaha receiver should perform the same as a decent mid range or even low end dac.,

I do get that people will say that they bought a new SMSL D300 etc. and its 'better' than the dac in their $1,000 denon but you know what this is. You dont need me to explain it.

Unless the dac stage is truly abominable but that is rare.

BUT as I say that, OP can scrouge up $67 for an SMSL SU-1 and pretend its doing something special and new that the inbuild DACs arent doing.

I really dont think the money on a cheap dac is wasted on just pure experimentation.

 

[LTig]

Both the SMSL M500 MKIII and the DO300 have been measured here at AS. To my layman's eyes, both SMSL DACs appear to be substantially better performers. Is it reasonable to expect an audible improvement in sound quality if I should decide to switch DACs?

No.

 

[LTig]

BTW, all these people saying all the DACs sound the same. If that were the case, why would people buy RME / Denafrips / Chord / Geshelli and many more expensive brands out there? Are these people stupid and want to flush their money down the toilet? Cables I can understand but DACs do sound different across price range and their topology.

People buy DACs for many different reason, one of them is they think they get better SQ. I bought the RME ADI-2 PRO fs for making measurements and its unique set of features like EQ, crossfeed and loudness. However I could it not hear a difference in SQ compared to my old Edirol UA25 sound interface although it measures much worse.