What amp/sub? You can do both music and movies in a single room....
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Still trying to pull the trigger on some towers. 10,000 budget. Please help me decide.
- Thread starter sneabs
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Are you conflating sensitivity with output? Arendal claims a maximum power handling of 1000 watts per speaker. If that's actually true, a single speaker could theoretically achieve over 120dB at a 1 meter distance without the aid of boundary reinforcement. I do agree that distortion (and likely damage if sustained over time) will certainly be in evidence at that level, but they seem more than capable of delivering impressive volumes in a typical domestic room - certainly more than the vast majority of speakers that don't utilize compression drivers, active or not.
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If it were me, I'd jump on this discounted (open box) pair of KEF Reference 3's: https://us.kef.com/products/reference-3-floorstanding-speaker-open-box
I would go with mofi sourcepoint 888 and two nice subs as long as rear ported speakers are good wrt to placement. For nicer looking speakers I would prefer Kef R11 meta.
You can find the full 1528 tower specs in the handbook:
1528 Tower 8
1528 Tower 8 has a 3-way speaker design that delivers incredible performance with its 28mm lithium-magnesium tweeter, 5″ carbon-graphene midrange, and quad 8″ aluminum bass drivers…
arendalsound.com
They are rated 118dB peak, 112dB RMS (20hz-20khz, IEC60268). Given their size and weight, I would expect them to be fully capable of handling these levels per specs. These are extreme levels, but in big rooms you will need 105dB peak (around 85dB average) at MLP for HT reference volume, and the difference to rated 118dB would be a distance cushion.
Perlisten R7t and S7t speakers are also rated for extreme SPL levels. Revel big towers can also play really loud and we have distortion measurements of their speakers on this site up to 96dB and they are crazy low (328 and 228). To fully evaluate speakers, we would need the full compression test which is not provided by any reviewer that I know, but wish it was for the top speakers claiming high SPL ratings.
The trend I am talking about is the advanced bass management that was deployed for a while by Trinnov and Storm, and D&M also added some new features in 2022/3. This includes custom bass routing between the speakers as well as routing of LFE signal to the capable bed channel speakers. Integration might be difficult but then most things can be done with skill and persistency. Then there is Dirac ART that is still in development but uses all the capable speakers to reduce low end decay, so the more capable the speakers are the more reduction should theoretically occur below 150hz.
I have been thinking of setting up a new 2 channel space with towers and have been visiting audio shops for about 6 months when I can to experience different brands. I travel for work and own my own business so I can take some extra time to visit different shops. Here are a few things I've learned:
1) Major cities have multiple quality audio stores and if you spend a day there you can hear a surprising amount of options across a number of brands in one day. Pick a city with great options and go visit if you don't already live near one that is convenient. It's fun although a bit tiring. You can cover up to 3 shops in one day if you plan it. There are also some really great shops in quieter distant suburbs that are a bit of a drive from downtown.
2) some shops will set up exactly what you want in advance from their current demo stock so contact them to say "I want to listen to x speaker or x price point with this type of source" and set up an appointment.
3). From what I have heard, all the speakers at $5k or more sound good but there are differences. It is really helpful to hear multiple speakers connected via a switch to the same equipment in the same room but that is not always available. This makes it hard to choose but you may find a sound signature that impresses you most. The good news is, most sound good at the price point.... I think you'll be happy at that price as long as you can turn off the Internet buzz and upgrade bs after you purchase.
4). From your list the only one I have heard is the Revel. Like above, it sounds good. It didn't impress as much as some others but that could have been the room, who knows. Perlisten sounds excellent, you might add it to your list...R7 or R5 towers. I am finding I like no speaker box sound and I already have good box towers so I am leaning that way but Perlisten has stood out for me on my journey too. As well as the Kef Blade 2 but they are really expensive.
1) Major cities have multiple quality audio stores and if you spend a day there you can hear a surprising amount of options across a number of brands in one day. Pick a city with great options and go visit if you don't already live near one that is convenient. It's fun although a bit tiring. You can cover up to 3 shops in one day if you plan it. There are also some really great shops in quieter distant suburbs that are a bit of a drive from downtown.
2) some shops will set up exactly what you want in advance from their current demo stock so contact them to say "I want to listen to x speaker or x price point with this type of source" and set up an appointment.
3). From what I have heard, all the speakers at $5k or more sound good but there are differences. It is really helpful to hear multiple speakers connected via a switch to the same equipment in the same room but that is not always available. This makes it hard to choose but you may find a sound signature that impresses you most. The good news is, most sound good at the price point.... I think you'll be happy at that price as long as you can turn off the Internet buzz and upgrade bs after you purchase.
4). From your list the only one I have heard is the Revel. Like above, it sounds good. It didn't impress as much as some others but that could have been the room, who knows. Perlisten sounds excellent, you might add it to your list...R7 or R5 towers. I am finding I like no speaker box sound and I already have good box towers so I am leaning that way but Perlisten has stood out for me on my journey too. As well as the Kef Blade 2 but they are really expensive.
The Børresen X3 is the best sounding speaker I have heard around that price point and up to about $20K/pair. Their measurements are mediocre and thus would be frowned upon by most here, but IMHO they sound substantially superior to the F228Bes. The X3s are not quite as detailed in the highs but are far more musically engaging, with less cabinet noise.
Another speaker I prefer to the Revels is Philharmonic’s BMR Tower. It does everything better as long as you’re not trying for a peace disturbance citation, in which case the Revel would be better. However, Philharmonic also makes a high output “HT” model that likely can play as loud or louder than the 228s.
Those who would dismiss the Boressens based on their Klippel data would be surprised if they were to A/B them against the textbook-perfect BMR towers in the same room as I have done numerous times. There is no audible “hole in the midrange” relative to the BMR Towers. If anything, the BMRs have the thinner midrange.
Another speaker I prefer to the Revels is Philharmonic’s BMR Tower. It does everything better as long as you’re not trying for a peace disturbance citation, in which case the Revel would be better. However, Philharmonic also makes a high output “HT” model that likely can play as loud or louder than the 228s.
Those who would dismiss the Boressens based on their Klippel data would be surprised if they were to A/B them against the textbook-perfect BMR towers in the same room as I have done numerous times. There is no audible “hole in the midrange” relative to the BMR Towers. If anything, the BMRs have the thinner midrange.
I really have not hear Borrensen X3, but I never would like to either, nor would ever look at their graphs seriously. I do think that Perlisten went small with 6.5" drivers on bass end, even if 4 of them (but they actually knew why and pulled it off to large extent) but this has infant bass drivers (more like midrange) and 2.5 way design. I can imagine why they measure as bad as you say. Our ears are deceivers and can take us places where we should not go, thus the specs and measurements should guide us in at least right direction. Or our individual preferences might be so extreme that they would not be valid for the broader audience.
Borrensen X3: dimensions of 129 x 34.5 x 60.7cm HxWxD; 55kg; 35Hz-50kHz bandwidth; 90dB sensitivity; 4Ω nominal impedance; and dual 4½" woofers for the 2.5-way array's 'half-way' bass section.
BMR Towers are respectable speakers, but have their limitations. Might be a good value though.
Borrensen X3: dimensions of 129 x 34.5 x 60.7cm HxWxD; 55kg; 35Hz-50kHz bandwidth; 90dB sensitivity; 4Ω nominal impedance; and dual 4½" woofers for the 2.5-way array's 'half-way' bass section.
BMR Towers are respectable speakers, but have their limitations. Might be a good value though.
Multicore
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I've got the older Ascend Acoustic Sierra Tower (with ribbon tweeter) and think they are just tremendous.
And I like the in-room bass extension to 26 Hz (~-3 dB relative to the trend line, with DRC from a MiniDSP Flex).
I also like that I bought them direct from the company and that the cases are made of bamboo.
I also like that Dave spoke to me on the phone to help me choose a pair of speakers.
It's like Ascend Acoustics is the opposite end of the spectrum from Samsung (Revel). The mom and pop shop vs the global megacorp. There's no doubt that Revel and JBL speakers are good. But so are Ascend.
Multicore
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Idk why but outriggers are naff.
I had the Sierra Tower RAAL v1 and agree they are tremendous. That said, after conversing with Ascend, I made the upgrade to ELX (cross-over, new bass & midrange drivers). These are a big step up from the originals. Can't go wrong for the price nor with Ascend - a real pleasure to do business with.
Multicore
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I thought that about that upgrade when it was offered with $200 off at introduction. I decided not to because of a few things but the biggest was: what if I do the upgrade and can't say what the difference is. I actually feared the possibility of feeling foolish. Lol
MarkS
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This is perfectly reasonable. Well measuring speakers sound way more alike than different. Most people in the hobby are laser-focused on the small differences, but for many of us they are not significant. (And of course the non-ASR hobbyist is often laser-focused on differences that are entirely imaginary.)
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It so happens I auditioned Perlisten R5Ts in the same system immediately after the Borresens. In fact, auditioning the Perlistens was my motive for visiting the dealer that day. Thought I would likely be going home with a pair since he had them available at a large discount. I was sorely disappointed in the Perlistens though. They sounded nothing like I expected for a speaker with a monitor-reference freq response. They reminded me of the Q Acoustics Concept 50, another speaker that measures well yet sounds very underwhelming in most respects.
Not my experience at all.
Fireworks in the dealer demo can often result in long term dissatisfaction, whereas the speaker that underwhelms impresses over the long term.
Concept 50 has falling top end so could be as simple as that as to why you weren't so impressed. I wasn't either, have to say.
Looking at the Borresens measurements I'm pretty sure that's a speaker that would grate on me over time. But we should be wary of taking our own subjective experiences and preferences and thinking they are universal. They won't be.
Fireworks Finale from https://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tom-danleys-mic-recordings/ ! For such demonstrations I recommend an amplifier with the power recommended in the speaker specifications, turned up to full power. But since not everyone has a sense of black humor, proceed with caution
Agreed regarding universality of subjective preference.
I own a pair of X3s currently. They are one of my top three most satisfying speaker purchases among dozens over the past two decades. They are not “perfect,” but neither were the perfect-measuring speakers I’ve owned.
The non-linearities in their response would lead some to think the designer is clueless, however, they do make the X3s more enjoyable at moderate volumes relative to flatter speakers. The bass hump also compensates for the range where most rooms have a null when the speakers are positioned for optimal soundstaging (away from the walls).
Ironically, had Erin published that review before I acquired them, I probably wouldn’t have given the X3s a chance. I was quite firmly in the good graphs = good speaker camp.
If you're happy with your choice then you chose wisely. FWIW I don't think the designer is clueless but he designs by ear so he is designing a speaker he likes and which inevitably at least some others will like. But based on the research they're not going to have mass appeal.
The bloke who built my speakers was, I think, less than impressed with my choice of design. But if I'd wanted the world's most accurate, most revealing studio monitors, that's what I would have got.
Regardless, speaker choice is always going to be a personal one, and that does make it hard to recommend speakers to others without a lot of information about what they like. That's why it's safer to recommend the textbook solutions
But a lot of people have not figured out yet what they like. It's sometimes not the textbook solution.
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