New Neumann NDH30 coming

[solderdude]

And I hear with my own ears that in the low-frequency range they are not identical at all.

When everything above 700Hz is lower in amplitude this is similar to everything below 700Hz being boosted.
The damping scheme of the driver differs for sure, the part around the driver and pads as well.
So the HD560S and NDH30 are completely different headphones in every sense of the word.
The driver may have the same magnet and even have the same membrane and driver but that's the only thing that these headphones may have in common.
The HD560S thus (certainly acc to measurements) is not a 'low budget' NDH30 at all.

 

[Vitali]

When everything above 700Hz is lower in amplitude this is similar to everything below 700Hz being boosted.

I am quite skeptical about the measurements of the amplitude-frequency response and now you confirm this once again. Because the measurements do not show what you write about.

The damping scheme of the driver differs for sure, the part around the driver and pads as well.

Why are you explaining this to me if this is already visible in the photographs of the contents of the headphones, which I actually provided?
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-neumann-ndh30-coming.33643/post-1216330

So the HD560S and NDH30 are completely different headphones in every sense of the word.

So I didn't say they were the same. I just expressed my opinion on the question that I quoted.
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-neumann-ndh30-coming.33643/post-1308578

'low budget'

And here I agree, the HD 560S is definitely not a low-budget NDH 30. They are simply low budget in terms of sound quality, materials used and quality control of workmanship.

 

[solderdude]

Why are you explaining this to me if this is already visible in the photographs of the contents of the headphones, which I actually provided?

I am not explaining it to you, concurring would be a correct description based on the pics you provided.

So I didn't say they were the same.

I didn't say you did. Merely confirming it.

I am quite skeptical about the measurements of the amplitude-frequency response and now you confirm this once again.

Measurements are made on an industry standard fixture by someone who knows what he is doing.
How did I confirm that you are skeptical about FR measurements ?

Because the measurements do not show what you write about.

Why ?

 

[oratory1990]

And I hear with my own ears that in the low-frequency range they are not identical at all.

They have different treble, and the reproduction of treble will inflluence one's perception of low frequencies.

Increasing 3-6 kHz by a few dB on a bass drum will make it sound more impactful and give the perception that low frequencies changes, even though they verifiably didn't.
But our ears don't perceive individual frequency ranges independently of others.

 

[Vitali]

They have different treble, and the reproduction of treble will inflluence one's perception of low frequencies.

Increasing 3-6 kHz by a few dB on a bass drum will make it sound more impactful and give the perception that low frequencies changes, even though they verifiably didn't.
But our ears don't perceive individual frequency ranges independently of others.

And how is this reflected in the chart of measurements? An increase of 3-6 kHz by a few dB? And also on headphones that are too bassy, for better perception, is it enough just to lower these high frequencies with an equalizer?
Did I understand you correctly that you need to equalize the headphones, with a lack of bass, not at low frequencies, but at high frequencies, 3-6 kHz? And will these headphones sound the same if, for example, there are few of these high frequencies in some part of the composition? One can only guess about this and only approximately. Although this also does not guarantee that I personally and you or anyone else will hear and perceive music in these headphones identically. Once again, I am convinced that the measurements have only a very approximate relation to the sound of the headphones.

 

[Postlan]

Is this consider to be an updated version of HD600/650? Then I wonder why they release this can under Neumann's name that would be unfamiliar among HP communities.

I know everyone is looking for a better version of HD600/650, and I'm sure that is why HD800(S) still gets a lot of attention despite of its major flaw just because the name suggests 800 is 200 better than 600.

 

[solderdude]

Neumann is big in the studio world and that's where the closed NDH-20 and open NDH-30 are intended for.
See it as a headphone 'addition' to their studio monitor line.
It is not an attempt to conquer the consumer headphone world.

 

[tknx]

So this goes to why a studio monitor and a consumer device are different. Presumably a studio one adheres strongly to a set target and responds to EQ well whereas a consumer one might be a bit more V shaped and less “analytical” but I often feel people are splitting hairs between these categories.

A good transducer is a good transducer. The label is unimportant for the most part.

 

[solderdude]

The difference between studio headphones and hifi headphones is mostly about price (studio headphones are generally cheaper) but above all ruggedness.
Comfort and looks are not a priority for studio gear either.

The transducer used in the NDH30 is based on (not exactly the same) the consumer HD560S = HD400Pro in an enclosure derived from the flopped HD630VB.

 

[Postlan]

I don't know who said that, but I read a Neumann newsletter saying the transducer used in NDH30 is a newly developed single membrane Doufol with lower f0. NDH20 has a double membrane Doufol. 528480 is apparently not the number of membrane nor voice coil, it's probably the parts number of the casing of capsule.

 

[Makahl]

I don't know who said that, but I read a Neumann newsletter saying the transducer used in NDH30 is a newly developed single membrane Doufol with lower f0. NDH20 has a double membrane Doufol. 528480 is apparently not the number of membrane nor voice coil, it's probably the parts number of the casing of capsule.

Indeed. This was mentioned quite often in some blogs from Japan.

The biggest difference is in the structure of the foil (membrane), and it seems that the NDH 20 uses a two-layer membrane called Doufol membrane, which is patented by Sennheiser, but the NDH 30 is a newly developed single membrane driver. It is said that it is. It seems that the resonance frequency is lowered by using one sheet, and the response and linearity in the bass range are improved.

In addition, the overall distortion factor (THD) has achieved 0.03% or less, achieving performance that exceeds the already low distortion factor of NDH 20.

https://www.soundhouse.co.jp/contents/column/index?post=2701

38mm driver unit
Original driver Sys 38
Manufactured in Ireland
Polymer blend diaphragm
Diaphragm structure
One diaphragm provides both stiffness and partial resonance damping
Improved low-frequency linearity
Very low distortion values coupled with basic design

Physical absorber (details undisclosed)
- Absorbs 7Khz and 10Khz bandwidths to ensure high-frequency range nonlinearities

Translated using Google Translate.

 

[Postlan]

Thank you for the confirmation.

My bad, the new membrane is not Sennheiser's patented Duofol.

translated Japanese newsletter :

ノイマン、新ドライバで“モニタースピーカーの再現”目指した開放型ヘッドホン

ノイマンが開放型スタジオモニターヘッドホン「NDH 30」を7月28日に発売。店頭予想価格は99,000円前後。

news-mynavi-jp.translate.goog

 

[Takanaka]

Who has listened to them in the meantime? I had a nice 10% off code I could use recently, so I figured I would pull the trigger on them and what a purchase it has been.

They just sound pretty incredible in my subjective experience, so much so that I'll probably retire my HD800S in favor for this bad boy. I hope Amir can get his hands on one soon, if I lived in the US I would've sent multiple items in for analysis already!

 

[J-B]

Who has listened to them in the meantime? I had a nice 10% off code I could use recently, so I figured I would pull the trigger on them and what a purchase it has been.

They just sound pretty incredible in my subjective experience, so much so that I'll probably retire my HD800S in favor for this bad boy. I hope Amir can get his hands on one soon, if I lived in the US I would've sent multiple items in for analysis already!

Do you use your HD800S with EQ?

Your comment does make me curious about the NDH-30.
After owning the NDH-20 for some time I was not that interested in the NDH-30, because I really dislike the 20.
I now happily use an HD800 (EQ'ed).

 

[IAtaman]

Who has listened to them in the meantime? I had a nice 10% off code I could use recently, so I figured I would pull the trigger on them and what a purchase it has been.

They just sound pretty incredible in my subjective experience, so much so that I'll probably retire my HD800S in favor for this bad boy. I hope Amir can get his hands on one soon, if I lived in the US I would've sent multiple items in for analysis already!

Your comment made me curious too. Neumann website says NH-30s have "sound and mix compatibility with KH-Line speakers". Might be just marketing BS of course, but if it's true, do you think its compatability to the KH speakers you already seem to own has an impact on your preference?

 

[Postlan]

I had a chance to compare HD800S (with frequency correction) and NDH30 (no correction) side by side during the holidays. HD800S is more comfortable and has classier look, but I find NDH30 is noticeably better in terms of accuracy and low frequency distortion. The low end of HD800S is apparently distorted after EQ and the soundstage is unusual. You may like it, but I don't.

 

[Takanaka]

I had a chance to compare HD800S (with frequency correction) and NDH30 (no correction) side by side during the holidays. HD800S is more comfortable and has classier look, but I find NDH30 is noticeably better in terms of accuracy and low frequency distortion. The low end of HD800S is apparently distorted after EQ and the soundstage is unusual. You may like it, but I don't.

I have a very similar experience, the HD 800S prouds itself with it's exceptional soundstage and very prominent treble, but after corrective EQ it just takes those away and it just makes it sound weird in my experience, I was using Oratory1990's tuning but if anyone else got a different EQ I'm all ears.

While the NDH 30 out of the box immediately reminded me of 8030C's or KH310's the way it presented the whole spectrum, they really do sound like over ear monitors. Maybe it has something to do with the placement of the drivers which is very close and at an angle, it probably plays a similar trick like the placement of the drivers on the HD800S.

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

does anybody here own/owned the ndh20 and is currently using ndh30? I'd love to hear a side-by-side comparison between the two.
frankly, I still like my ndh20 but when I first bought it I was hooked into the whole "low distortion" driver thing, but nowadays when I listen to it I can't even have an impression like "wow, I'm really listening to a low-distortion headphones", in comparison with other headphones (some measures worse, some does equal or better).

 

[usa_satriani]

I am really happy I bought this headphone, exactly what looking for, sturdy, comfortable, well made and overall well balanced and with realistic sound.
I would like to translate the eq kindly provided here to tonebooster for usb audio player...I will see what I can do.
Would like to compare to morphit. Anyway much more noticeable eq was applied to the k702 by morphit.
Really like that

 

[GauravT]

Just to avoid people being misled by this comment, the measurements from Headphonecheck test are using a Neumann KU100, the KU100 does not have ear canal simulators and therefore does not deliver accurate results. As you can see:

It's basically a flat plate rig. The difference between the two headphones as measured on the KU100 will not be the same as when measured on a standard GRAS measurement rig. The KU100 is simply not made for headphone measurements, it's made for binaural recordings.

Just speaking from a logical perspective. If the ear canal gain is such a huge variable won’t it be smart to not account for it? I mean the ear canal simulator may not match how my actual ear canal treat the gain. So I cannot have an actual data point I can rely on. If say KU100 is taken as a standard, I would be able to correlate a graph mapped using KU100 for a headphone and what I hear and perceive according to my ear canal.