New Nagra DAC announced at CES - list price $65,000

[FrantzM]

Gosh, they ruined the one thing that was great about their products: their cool industrial design. That hodgepodge of dials, LED display, and ugly round feet shows they have completely lost their way:

They had to address "vibration control" and those feet solve any vibration .. Wait ... "Solve any vibration" doesn't seem to make sense .. Let's try again .. Those columns that serve as feet, remove all and any unwanted vibrations airborne or produced by the unit itself ..There! It is now worth $50,000 ..... Of course the MSB DAC TOL, The DCS three-chassis units with the beptoclock or the Trinity DACs, which cost twice as much, have to be superior

 

[yummy]

Chinese loves this nagra, many bought their $20,000 products

 

[Purité Audio]

Nagra ‘pro’ and Nagra overpriced Audiophile are two different companies I believe.
Keith

 

[PierreV]

Someone needs to open one to check if it does actually contain 37 Khadas Tone Boards.

 

[Killingbeans]

The problem with a lot of high end audio people is they can't accept it is just a status symbol and something that they just like, and try to make silly performance claims.

I think equipment at this price point transcends the realm of audiophoolery. Most people who buy this will not give a rats ass about audio. They only use it as a display to brag about their ridiculous (probably sudden and newfound) wealth. Vanity is the biggest business of all.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I think equipment at this price point transcends the realm of audiophoolery. Most people who buy this will not give a rats ass about audio. They only use it as a display to brag about their ridiculous (probably sudden and newfound) wealth. Vanity is the biggest business of all.

I have never been comfortable with expensive Hi-Fi being to display wealth, who sees it?
Fancy car, yes, gold Rolex certainly, expensive Hi-Fi ?????

 

[svart-hvitt]

CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumption

I am not surprised it had to be a Norwegian to point this out to his fellow Americans. It may be a culture thing?

 

[dtaylo1066]

Given the small sliver of high end audio enthusiasts, if one had a host of Nagra components in their house, who would ever notice that fact unless they belonged to a local audio club? Most guests would not notice a Nagra preamp any more than they would a Pioneer receiver. 65K for a DAC is silly. I make a decent living, but paying 20K-300K for an audio component is silly. On the news yesterday I heard that something like 18,000 American households report earnings of more than $10 million per year. So somewhere in their is your Nagra target. Over the holidays the rapper 50 cent purchased two Rolls Royce vehicles and a Lambo, so if you have the cash... Does anyone really need more than a 5K DAC? Is there any audible difference? I go to RMAF every year in Denver, as I live in Colorado. I have heard $400,000 systems there that impressed my ears less than $10,000 rigs. To each his own, I guess. My DIY Hypex amp and DIY SEAS speakers sound pretty damn good with a variety of $500 DACs.

 

[Killingbeans]

I have never been comfortable with expensive Hi-Fi being to display wealth, who sees it?
Fancy car, yes, gold Rolex certainly, expensive Hi-Fi ?????

Trust me. Lots of people with more money than brains invite people home just to give them a tour of their extravagant interior. When they come to the Nagra setup, the price tag will be pointed out as the most important feature.

 

[JMC]

Does anyone really need more than a 5K DAC?

Up until about 10 years ago, I was fond of buying expensive audio equipment both analogue and digital. The early CD players, in fact most of what was produced before the latter part of the 1990s, were pretty poor sonically and there was a significant difference between budget and high end equipment. Then, I believe the digital audio replay problem was basically "solved" and the cost of essentially "perfect" performance started to plummet. Now, it is clear that a competently engineered DAC with no obvious flaws can be produced for $100, maybe less. Anything more expensive is just audio jewellery. That people continue to "believe" they can pay more and get better sound is caused, in my view, by the poor reliability of our auditory memory and man's passion to have a hobby to spend his hard earned money on.

 

[noobie]

Just goes to prove that some people have more dollars than sense.

 

[restorer-john]

Because those people "poking around with Chinese toy Topping products" (which even if they measure perfectly show that the user lacks class) just can't fathom the audio splendor of such an amazing product.

Go do some research on Nagra, then tell me if Topping (a cheap Chinese DAC solution in a box from a little upstart company) can be even mentioned in the same sentence. Seriously.

History lesson no1: https://www.nagraaudio.com/history/

History lesson no2: https://www.nagraaudio.com/nagra-experience/

Some nice pics of their (tube!) preamplifier: http://www.nagraaudio-hd.com/hd-preamp.html

Some details:

Some specs:

Flat enough frequency response for you?:

When 'Topping' have been around for 65 years and actually made a contribution to the development of audio, recording technology and reproduction technology, they may be something to talk about. Right now, they are nothing.

 

[RayDunzl]

Is that cage it sits in optional?

 

[restorer-john]

Is that cage it sits in optional?

Looks like it could be easily removed. Throw on some optional rack ears and away you go.

 

[amirm]

Some specs:

Hmmm. Besides the frequency response this is the only measurement they show:

They are using my old AP analyzer. The 1 Khz tone has been filtered out and the residual shown. Assuming the tone was at 0 dBr, then second harmonic is at -84 dB or so. SINAD therefere would be 84 dB. For a tube amp that may be very good but in general, it is not.

I also don't trust the their dynamic range of -150 dB. If they took it from the noise floor shown, then they are forgetting the 35 dB or so contribution from FFT gain.

 

[restorer-john]

I also don't trust the their dynamic range of -150 dB. If they took it from the noise floor shown, then they are forgetting the 35 dB or so contribution from FFT gain.

We don't know what its maximum output level is vs its rated output level. It could be a huge difference.

 

[Rollingsound514]

I need to learn Cantonese $$$$$$

 

[jasonq997]

Go do some research on Nagra, then tell me if Topping (a cheap Chinese DAC solution in a box from a little upstart company) can be even mentioned in the same sentence. Seriously.

History lesson no1: https://www.nagraaudio.com/history/

History lesson no2: https://www.nagraaudio.com/nagra-experience/

Some nice pics of their (tube!) preamplifier: http://www.nagraaudio-hd.com/hd-preamp.html

View attachment 20282

Some details:

View attachment 20281

Some specs:

View attachment 20280

Flat enough frequency response for you?:

View attachment 20284

When 'Topping' have been around for 65 years and actually made a contribution to the development of audio, recording technology and reproduction technology, they may be something to talk about. Right now, they are nothing.

It obviously can since it is doubtful that people can hear any difference in a double blind test (if Nagra isn't intentionally making a non-transparent product).

 

[chrisliuboy]

Go do some research on Nagra, then tell me if Topping (a cheap Chinese DAC solution in a box from a little upstart company) can be even mentioned in the same sentence. Seriously.

History lesson no1: https://www.nagraaudio.com/history/

History lesson no2: https://www.nagraaudio.com/nagra-experience/

Some nice pics of their (tube!) preamplifier: http://www.nagraaudio-hd.com/hd-preamp.html

View attachment 20282

Some details:

View attachment 20281

Some specs:

View attachment 20280

Flat enough frequency response for you?:

View attachment 20284

When 'Topping' have been around for 65 years and actually made a contribution to the development of audio, recording technology and reproduction technology, they may be something to talk about. Right now, they are nothing.

Hmmm, an old company made it. OK...But do they sound better? Especially Sennheiser didn't even charge HE 1 for that price.
30kg..... I could use a foot stand...

 

[JJB70]

I think that how you think of this product will depend on what criteria you apply in assessing it.

If you are looking for something very exclusive, with lavish build quality and actually want something which is very expensive then I guess this fits perfectly.

If you want something which has been superbly engineered, measures well and are willing to spend a lot but are not simply looking to spend $$$$$$s on a statement to display your wealth then companies like RME and Benchmark provide superbly made and measuring products.

If you just want an audibly transparent DAC to enjoy music then you buy one for peanuts and I suspect that for the great majority of people the DA conversion in their devices is quite adequate.

I can get why people pay for high quality regardless of whether it sounds better. However when RME can provide a superbly made DAC for a tiny proportion of the cost which is already way beyond the point of diminishing returns its hard to see any reason for a $65k DAC other than to provide a display of wealth statement. I have no issues with that if it is viewed in those terms.