New Nagra DAC announced at CES - list price $65,000

[restorer-john]

However when RME can provide a superbly made DAC for a tiny proportion of the cost which is already way beyond the point of diminishing returns its hard to see any reason for a $65k DAC other than to provide a display of wealth statement. I have no issues with that if it is viewed in those terms.

Totally agree with this. I am certainly not in Nagra's market. I've played with some of their gear and repaired a few pieces. The quality of construction was flawless and made me realize what can be done when the boat is well and truly pushed out.

Yes, it's ridiculously expensive, but at least you can see where your money goes, unlike some other brands out there.

Personally, I'd rather have the (99.999%) performance from gear that costs <10% of the price or less. But, if money was no object, would my choice be the same or different? That, I cannot say.

 

[Killingbeans]

Topping (a cheap Chinese DAC solution in a box from a little upstart company)

Sounds like you are thinking about Khadas, not Topping?

 

[Pluto]

the audio splendor of such an amazing product

Lets deal with a few, possibly unsettling, facts for a moment.

• Nagra made its reputation by offering audio engineering that was consistently close to the cutting edge of human capability in that field
• Up until (say) 30 years ago there was a marked distinction between the performance of the very best kit* and the capability of the human ear
• The development of digital technology closed-up the field which, hitherto, Nagra had led. A near-perfect recorder, sufficiently robust for the jungle or the moon or the Antarctic could be purchased for 10% of the price of a Nagra
• There was no way that the business model upon which Nagra thrived since its inception could survive the technological revolution which had become capable of delivering a near-perfect recorder for <$5k

So the obvious route for the Nagra shareholders to take is to cash-in on the company's reputation with that part of the market that remains willing to pay traditional Nagra prices. I wish the company well, and I hope their customers enjoy the magnificent heritage to which they have bought an expensive ticket.

Only don't try to tell me that a Nagra DAC actually sounds any better than a well-designed Chinese unit. It may be more reliable in the long term, but that's another issue.

*excluding transducers where the distinction remains to this day

 

[Soniclife]

Yes, it's ridiculously expensive, but at least you can see where your money goes, unlike some other brands out there.

Oxymoron? I don't see how it can be both ridiculous and obvious where you money goes. This looks like a product where they worked out a price with a generous margin, and then added a zero for good measure.
I've no problem with expensive, I classify my own hifi as stupidly expensive, and the total cost of all of it is less than half of this DAC.

 

[sergeauckland]

Stellavox is a company with a similar heritage to Nagra, and they have continued (just) in the professional sector, but this was taken just now from their web site.

The Stellavox Professional Audio Equipment has been manufactured in Switzerland since the 50s. The first products were professional tape recorders of extremely high mechanical quality.
In the late 80s Stellavox started the development of a portable professional DAT Digital Tape Recorder, the Stelladat.
In 1993, without having reached the break-even with this new product, the owners decided that the market was evolving too fast towards computer recording and that the traditional Stellavox products did not have enough potential anymore. Financial support was dropped and all activities were stopped.
Sonosax, another small Swiss Audio company, bought the rights to continue the development of the Stelladat recorder and a few former technicians of the old company took their chance with the old products maintenance.

Nagra effectively split into two companies (I think the split is now complete) with one part continuing with their Conditional Access encoding and security products, and the other part, getting into high-end consumer audio, as Pluto says, drawing on their past reputation to justify the prices.

Another similar company was dCS, who started with some superlative very much Sota Professional products, but decided to go upmarket consumer as the only way to maintain their high prices.

S.

 

[Purité Audio]

I owned their PLL/ PLP? preamp when it was released, it might have been Nagra’s first foray into the ‘high-end’ it was very pretty, quiet too, I think it had a valve in it, the thing I remember most was the inflated cost of servicing/valves from the U.K. distributor .
Keith

 

[Pluto]

The first [Stellavox] products were professional tape recorders of extremely high mechanical quality

It is interesting to note that the dominant aspect of the quality of both the Stellavox and Nagra product was their mechanical build quality. Nagra's electronics were competent rather than exemplary. Now there's a contentious comment

But it's a fact that the creation of a decent analogue tape recorder was more an exercise in mechanical engineering than electrical. Not a lot of people know that

 

[Dialectic]

Go do some research on Nagra, then tell me if Topping (a cheap Chinese DAC solution in a box from a little upstart company) can be even mentioned in the same sentence. Seriously.

History lesson no1: https://www.nagraaudio.com/history/

History lesson no2: https://www.nagraaudio.com/nagra-experience/

Some nice pics of their (tube!) preamplifier: http://www.nagraaudio-hd.com/hd-preamp.html

View attachment 20282

Some details:

View attachment 20281

Some specs:

View attachment 20280

Flat enough frequency response for you?:

View attachment 20284

When 'Topping' have been around for 65 years and actually made a contribution to the development of audio, recording technology and reproduction technology, they may be something to talk about. Right now, they are nothing.

Nagra, the high-end company, split from the main Kudelski group. All that Nagra high-end equipment shares with legacy Nagra professional equipment is superficial industrial design, and now the high-end company is even managing to screw that up.

I owned their PLL/ PLP? preamp when it was released, it might have been Nagra’s first foray into the ‘high-end’ it was very pretty, quiet too, I think it had a valve in it, the thing I remember most was the inflated cost of servicing/valves from the U.K. distributor .
Keith

That would have been back when Nagra pro and Nagra high-end were the same company. The inflated service and repair cost shenanigans in Nagra's pro division are well-documented.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Go do some research on Nagra, then tell me if Topping (a cheap Chinese DAC solution in a box from a little upstart company) can be even mentioned in the same sentence. Seriously.

History lesson no1: https://www.nagraaudio.com/history/

History lesson no2: https://www.nagraaudio.com/nagra-experience/

Some nice pics of their (tube!) preamplifier: http://www.nagraaudio-hd.com/hd-preamp.html

View attachment 20282

Some details:

View attachment 20281

Some specs:

View attachment 20280

Flat enough frequency response for you?:

View attachment 20284

When 'Topping' have been around for 65 years and actually made a contribution to the development of audio, recording technology and reproduction technology, they may be something to talk about. Right now, they are nothing.

It is still stupidly and unjustifiably expensive. The current preamp is £50k in the UK for a line level preamp!!!!!!
As a Nagra tape recorder user 45 years ago I am absolutely disgusted that somebody has come along and chosen to use their good name to practically steal money from the gullible.
It is sad to see a great name be taken over by a bunch of sharks who use the styling cues and reputation of the original company to perpetrate this sort of thing.
IMHO.
Not impressed by Topping but this Nagra BS is an outrage.

 

[HammerSandwich]

Not impressed by Topping but this Nagra BS is an outrage.

Coming from someone who worked with F1 budgets, that says a lot!

 

[sergeauckland]

As I understand it, the Hifi side of Nagra is (or was) run by Stefan Kudelski's daughter.

S.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Coming from someone who worked with F1 budgets, that says a lot!

During the time I was in F1 the budgets varied from "is there a return leaf in my air ticket, will I have a job tomorrow" to "obscenely extravagant".
This depends entirely on marketing not engineering or rules. If a company thinks spending more money on F1 will give better advertising and sales it gets spent.
It went from needing a lot of skill to spend the small amount of money available on the things that made the most difference to spending on anything anybody thinks of, often to zero effect.
FWIW if budget was dependant on engineering/rules the most expensive/sophisticated cars would have been the 1982 season.

Sorry for the very OT post

 

[beaux92]

I enjoy my hd dac very much. Nagra's products usually have huge discount, like 40%-50% off. But 65000usd is way too expensive unless they can offer 80% off

 

[daftcombo]

Topping D10 $79 Vs. Nagra $65.000 ABX anyone?

 

[FrantzM]

Topping D10 $79 Vs. Nagra $65.000 ABX anyone?

A review by Amir?

 

[Anatta]

Some details:

View attachment 20281

Some specs:

View attachment 20280

LOL 160dB SNR, >150dB dynamic range, best specifications

I guess it didn't occur to you that Nagra might pull these numbers out of its ass.

https://www.hifinews.com/content/nagra-hd-preamp-preamplifier-lab-report

 

[DuxServit]

Topping D10 $79 Vs. Nagra $65.000 ABX anyone?

Oh don’t be so cruel, D50 instead of the D10

 

[Fregly]

My finances are not refined enough for a $65,000 Dac.

 

[DKT88]

Let's see, should I buy a 2019 Shelby GT500 and a Topping D10 or just the Nagra DAC? Help me make the decision.

 

[Jaimo]

Gosh, they ruined the one thing that was great about their products: their cool industrial design. That hodgepodge of dials, LED display, and ugly round feet shows they have completely lost their way:

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