New mysterious Genelec monitors

[thewas]

Those 5” midrange are not close enough to each other (1/4 wavelength), so if they are playing 500hz and above (even with a 500hz crossover they still play higher frequencies) then there will be comb filtering.

The quarter wavelength is an extreme ideal, in such a concentric design also close to 1/2 a wavelength works quite well as I will show below. Also it should be considered that the distance of the perimetric lower mid drivers to the central driver should be considered which should in the order of 220 mm and thus around 1/3 of the wavelenght of 500 Hz.

Below I have simulated exemplarily such a five 5" drivers in a 500 x 500 mm enclosure configuration and as it can be seen there are no significant lobing issues in the interested frequency region up to 500 Hz, the whole behaves like a huge single lower midrange driver with some very nice controlled directivity down to below 200 Hz only without the problems that such a driver would have:

I didn't think about the original argument of @thewas because it was obviously shelled out as a defense by aggression.

In my book the whole thread is hilarious anyway. And now Genelec dared to ask for comments ... I only remember the pretty lame response to KEF's white paper on the R / meta series. All so excited, but (nearly?) nobody referrenced the content, let alone critically. Could it be that the audience here is a bit overrated in regard to technological insight?

Unfortunately people with half-knowledge and full-selfoverestimation but no significant experience with simulations and real measurements tend often to underestimate others, even the state of the art R&D and engineering from companies like Genelec.

 

[Whatsthephuss]

We have a midrange in the troath that could overlap with the other midranges?

very cool. I did not think that the coaxial in the throat would go that low. Nice design

 

[thewas]

We have a midrange in the troath that could overlap with the other midranges?

I also initially thought so (see my above post) but even if I remove the middle driver and leave only the four corner ones there are still no big issues till 500 Hz:

 

[thecheapseats]

go big - or go home...

 

[gnarly]

Unfortunately people with half-knowledge and full-selfoverestimation but no significant experience with simulations and real measurements tend often to underestimate others, even the state of the art R&D and engineering from companies like Genelec.

Well, i can certainly be accused of both of those traits !
And I don't spend a whole lot of effort on sims,
but I've made more off-axis quasi-anechoic multi-way measurements, than probably anybody on ASR past Amir, Erin, and perhaps some of the contributing manufacturers.

Must say, it's not going to be near as pretty as your sim depicts. (one of the reasons i quit getting deep with sims)
Oh, did you high pass the center coax 5"? Hope so....what order?
I doubt the center mid has much to do with the 4 rim mids....iow, doesn't help c-2-c much...

 

[Pearljam5000]

Anyone here with 8351/8361+W371 replacing them with these ?

 

[dukanvadet]

I also initially thought so (see my above post) but even if I remove the middle driver and leave only the four corner ones there are still no big issues till 500 Hz:

View attachment 285851

Looks good. now im kind of curious what could be done if we kept the corner mids on a bit higher while crossing in the horn mid as well. Looks like we are loosing directivity 500-1000. Im sure they thought of this allready but i kind of want to know how it would look.

 

[fineMen]

Well, i can certainly be accused of both of those traits !
And I don't spend a whole lot of effort on sims,
but I've made more off-axis quasi-anechoic multi-way measurements, than probably anybody on ASR past Amir, Erin, and perhaps some of the contributing manufacturers.

Must say, it's not going to be near as pretty as your sim depicts. (one of the reasons i quit getting deep with sims)
Oh, did you high pass the center coax 5"? Hope so....what order?
I doubt the center mid has much to do with the 4 rim mids....iow, doesn't help c-2-c much...

And additional caveats e/g in the x/o region there is this waveguide with some internal interference also and so on and so forth.

I still ask you to grant me the honor of guessing it right in my very first post on this; it is an interference machinery on purpose, which nobody else had on his mind.

The now not so mysterious new Genelec will find its way into many high fidelity lover's homes, I'm sure. Wasn't teher a Spanish physician lately who was asking for exactly this bundle of features? I sent him to genelec for asking them individually. He refused. If he did, he would have known about this newly revelation sooner than we all!

I think the referring speaker is going to become the audiophiles new "little black dress", simple, effective, expensive.

 

[Vini darko]

€70,000 inc VAT according to gearnews

 

[thewas]

Oh, did you high pass the center coax 5"? Hope so....what order?

No, just five typical 5" mid drivers to show the directivity behaviour of such a configuration.

I doubt the center mid has much to do with the 4 rim mids....iow, doesn't help c-2-c much...

Yes, as I showed in the post below it works also very similarly without it in that range.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Realistically @3 meters
What will I be missing in 8361 vs these ?

 

[Tisca]

Why did they skip the "7": 8361 -> 8381. Are they reserving it for a smaller model or is this one supposed to replace an older model with an 8 in the name?

 

[juliangst]

I’m still convinced that a good multisub setup will give you similarly smooth bass as those sophisticated cardioid speakers.

 

[thewas]

I still ask you to grant me the honor of guessing it right in my very first post on this; it is an interference machinery on purpose, which nobody else had on his mind.

In which exact post did you do that? From what I can see your previous posts in this topic where in sequence:

Aren't you all already #1? Deliberately, with all the unrestrained excitement falling for a deliberately trivial marketing ploy. But, as a fan/boy/girl/diverse how dare you to expect improvement to already confirmed (scientifically) perfection?!

=> https://www.themoviebuff.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/wizard-oz-stills-33388.jpg

(Mind you, the original background of the book and movie was about giving up elementary standards.)

It was a reaction to somebody else's suggestion to define another one as the fanboy #1.

I've seen that often, namely that once your general mindset it challenged, the English is an obstacle.

I find it particularly disconcerting that all you speculate and chit chat about a speaker that GENELEC is going to offer, but didn't reveal any details about but published a snippet of a photograph that you interpret as gospel (instead of laughing out loud about this funny marketing trick). For the time being I just pretend to not know what the correct term for naming this kind of behaviour may be.
It only associates too well with most or even all guys being lost when it comes to details of the actual technology and the always chuggling understanding of numbers and graphs.

But please, it's your delight

How do you feel? Christmas day tomorrow, only costing, what was it , 35k$$ per piece? New unknown opportunities for nearly free?

Tomorrow GENELC will pull the blanket off what they offer to save world! =>

Celebrate! The rites of spring! A new look?

Don't guess what I feel, though. I'm clear about my contemporaries, sadly. It's not about the English, right? Tja, as I expected. From you.

where I don't see single world about "interference machine"? (which it still isn't).

 

[onion]

I’m still convinced that a good multisub setup will give you similarly smooth bass as those sophisticated cardioid speakers.

I disagree. I had a Genelec Ones-multisub setup that is obviously inferior to the same 'Ones' with W371a

 

[新しい人]

Of course there are more cost-effective options than the 8381a, but don't forget that there are more "high-end" speakers in this market that measure much less than it but are several times more expensive, such as

Share an interesting story with you

Zhou, the owner of Chinese Internet company 360, is an audiophiles, he previously bought a pair of hi-end speakers priced at more than $200,000. He has always felt that the pair of speakers sounded a little wrong, so he asked many experts to test. After the experts listened and tested, it was...

www.audiosciencereview.com

As I mentioned before, the problem with the 8381a is that it is not very flashy and should not attract buyers like the rich one I mentioned.

 

[voodooless]

Those 5” midrange are not close enough to each other (1/4 wavelength), so if they are playing 500hz and above (even with a 500hz crossover they still play higher frequencies) then there will be comb filtering.

Nope, it works pretty well, as I’ve shown already:

 

[juliangst]

I disagree. I had a Genelec Ones-multisub setup that is obviously inferior to the same 'Ones' with W371a

How large is your room? I think cardioid bass can really help with smaller rooms but i find it hard to believe that room that are >50m2 will really benefit from it

 

[thecheapseats]

€70,000 inc VAT according to gearnews

after purchasing a lot of pro-audio gear over the years I've found the msrp/rrp has little to do with what one might actually pay...
the margins in pro-audio are much thinner than consumer-audio, but there can be more 'room' at the very high end for price accommodation... also, early adopters usually negotiate more favorable pricing as mfgs cultivate a 'notable' installed base which benefits marketing efforts...

 

[Sancus]

I’m still convinced that a good multisub setup will give you similarly smooth bass as those sophisticated cardioid speakers.

Subs are not typically run in the ranges where the cardioid speakers are most helpful, eg 100-300hz. There are still major room issues in that region. If you did try to do that, you'd have some work ahead of you as many subs have problems when asked to play at those frequencies, even if you're willing to ignore the localization problems.