New mysterious Genelec monitors

[fpitas]

LOL obviously Neumann is on to something when they switched from Al to MDF for their KH120ii refresh

Neumann and I must have missed a recent memo. What's wrong with MDF?

 

[Spocko]

Those 5” midrange are not close enough to each other (1/4 wavelength), so if they are playing 500hz and above (even with a 500hz crossover they still play higher frequencies) then there will be comb filtering.

Likely they're relying on GLM software/DSP to address these issues

 

[Spocko]

Neumann and I must have missed a recent memo. What's wrong with MDF?

people were disappointed that the MDF lacked the durability of aluminum; however, for smaller monitors that would be moved around and thrown about (into the back of a car, broadcast van, into a gear locker, etc.) and subject to scratches/damage like the KH120 this makes sense but for something as large as these Genelecs, I don't think it makes a huge difference.

 

[srrxr71]

Likely they're relying on GLM software/DSP to address these issues

Actually yes probably. I forgot that these don’t have the dual “concentric” bass drivers of the other “ones”

 

[Ilkka Rissanen]

Q: What is meant by constant delay and phase? What are then the real-world advantages of having constant delay and phase?
A: See the numerical explanation below (copied from the brochure). Small group delay variation and linear phase response result in improved sound quality. There are other manufacturers as well who put a lot of emphasis to produce phase linear loudspeakers, such as Meyer Sound, Kii Audio, Dutch & Dutch, just to name a few recent ones. This is not the first Genelec to have such qualities, for example all current The Ones models are designed using the same principles.

Q: The crossover frequencies are now precised to be "50–130 Hz (variable), 150–250 Hz (variable), c 500 Hz, 1800 Hz". Without revealing the secret sauce of the GLM software, could you give pointers on how these variable crossover frequencies are chosen?
A: Variable crossover frequencies are chosen based on the in-house developed WooferCal algorithm introduced in the W371A. It measures each individual channel’s in-room response and selects the crossovers which produce the best end result.

Q: How do you deal with the comb filtering problem?
A: By designing a monitoring loudspeaker which does not have a comb filtering problem. See the published off-axis frequency response data.

Q: Is there a passive crossover filter between the coax tweeter and midrange?
A: No, all filters are active.

Q: Can the top unit be bought separately?
A: No, the 8381A is sold only as a full unit which includes the top and bottom cabinets and their respectable amplifiers. You would not buy a car without a gearbox either, it would not work as intended (yes, I am aware there are cars without gearboxes).

Q: How many channels/ways are there?
A: Five individual channels: coax tweeter, coax midrange, quad midrange, front woofer, dual side woofers. Each driven with their own amplifier channel.

Q: Will the new coaxial driver see itself as an upgrade for smaller The Ones models?
A: No, the 8381A coaxial is completely different design and would not acoustically or mechanically fit to smaller The Ones models. For example, the cone angle is much steeper which is required for the narrower dispersion. Also, the compression tweeter is required for the high SPL capability.

Q: Are the quad midrange dome drivers off-the-shelf units?
A: No, they are completely designed and manufactured in-house at Genelec.

Q: Is the compression tweeter the same as in S360A?
A: No, 8381A has a smaller 13 mm (½-in) throat which is needed for the 35 kHz top end extension.

Q: What material is the cabinet made of?
A: Cabinets are made of premium quality MDF with critical bracing to minimize panel vibrations. The large DCW housing the coax and quad midrange units is made of aluminium.

Q: How much?
A: MSRP is not public information due to POA pricing approach. We will kindly ask you to contact the nearest Genelec dealer or distributor for local pricing and availability.

 

[Spocko]

Realistically @3 meters
What will I be missing in 8361 vs these ?

bass power below 25 Hz?

 

[Spocko]

I’m still convinced that a good multisub setup will give you similarly smooth bass as those sophisticated cardioid speakers.

yep, but good cardioid speakers like the D&D 8C means less boxes all over your room - just more efficient use of space with the magic of science

 

[Axo1989]

This whole product launch has me rather perplexed and shaking my head: what was Genelec thinking by hyping this big unveiling? Too, based on some of the snarky comments, is this marketing effort potentially backfiring on them? Is this a Genelec attempt at an Apple-esque event, gone a wee-bit sour?

Thinking outloud:

If the MSRP is truly $75K +/- :

- how many pairs are they forecasting to sell per year? A dozen? Perhaps two dozen?

- who is their target audience - Pro studios who will already be reading about these in trade mags/ blogs, etc? Genelec FanBoys with, "stupid" money (sorry) who are going to buy the most expensive Genelec product no matter what the price.

- how much did they spend to produce the video launch? Granted, as of now, they've had 1162 viewers. Realistically, how many incremental sales will they generate from that video yet how much will the professional production cost of that video add to the cost of each pair of 8381's?

If I were the product manager for a high-end product like these speakers, I'd take a different approach.

- I'd spend my marketing money shipping a speaker (and hydraulic lift) to Amir for testing thus creating some buzz (with the agreement that I could use Amir's comments on the product web page.)

- spend my time talking to pro-audio writers;

- spend my budget attending at well targeted trade shows attended by high-end Genelec dealers rather than creating a great unveiling for a product that is probably priced above 98% of even an, "audiophile" audience like ASR.

To me, this, "great unveiling" really missed the mark. Apparently a very nice speaker but very silly marketing.

There were no obvious flaws in the production, but it was a straightforward and very simple thing, and wouldn't have been particularly expensive.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Wikl

Q: What is meant by constant delay and phase? What are then the real-world advantages of having constant delay and phase?
A: See the numerical explanation below (copied from the brochure). Small group delay variation and linear phase response result in improved sound quality. There are other manufacturers as well who put a lot of emphasis to produce phase linear loudspeakers, such as Meyer Sound, Kii Audio, Dutch & Dutch, just to name a few recent ones. This is not the first Genelec to have such qualities, for example all current The Ones models are designed using the same principles.

View attachment 285880

Q: The crossover frequencies are now precised to be "50–130 Hz (variable), 150–250 Hz (variable), c 500 Hz, 1800 Hz". Without revealing the secret sauce of the GLM software, could you give pointers on how these variable crossover frequencies are chosen?
A: Variable crossover frequencies are chosen based on the in-house developed WooferCal algorithm introduced in the W371A. It measures each individual channel’s in-room response and selects the crossovers which produce the best end result.

Q: How do you deal with the comb filtering problem?
A: By designing a monitoring loudspeaker which does not have a comb filtering problem. See the published off-axis frequency response data.

Q: Is there a passive crossover filter between the coax tweeter and midrange?
A: No, all filters are active.

Q: Can the top unit be bought separately?
A: No, the 8381A is sold only as a full unit which includes the top and bottom cabinets and their respectable amplifiers. You would not buy a car without a gearbox either, it would not work as intended (yes, I am aware there are cars without gearboxes).

Q: How many channels/ways are there?
A: Five individual channels: coax tweeter, coax midrange, quad midrange, front woofer, dual side woofers. Each driven with their own amplifier channel.

Q: Will the new coaxial driver see itself as an upgrade for smaller The Ones models?
A: No, the 8381A coaxial is completely different design and would not acoustically or mechanically fit to smaller The Ones models. For example, the cone angle is much steeper which is required for the narrower dispersion. Also, the compression tweeter is required for the high SPL capability.

Q: Are the quad midrange dome drivers off-the-shelf units?
A: No, they are completely designed and manufactured in-house at Genelec.

Q: Is the compression tweeter the same as in S360A?
A: No, 8381A has a smaller 13 mm (½-in) throat which is needed for the 35 kHz top end extension.

Q: What material is the cabinet made of?
A: Cabinets are made of premium quality MDF with critical bracing to minimize panel vibrations. The large DCW housing the coax and quad midrange units is made of aluminium.

Q: How much?
A: MSRP is not public information due to POA pricing approach. We will kindly ask you to contact the nearest Genelec dealer or distributor for local pricing and availability.

Will there be a smaller version 8371?

 

[Spocko]

Sorry, that makes no sense in terms of their business. They sell pro gear to professionals. A few geeks in basements do buy them, but not many.

And geeks in basements often have questionable taste in design given everything in that basement is unlikely to be winning design awards.

 

[Spocko]

I feel pro stuff is always better value in terms price/performance. All that “attractive” stuff costs either in material or performance somewhere.

That "attractive" stuff is definitely costly in terms of paying a competent designer to do it before even getting to the materials, etc.

 

[ocinn]

Seems to me it's more or less a Hyperion clone

Hyperion does not seem to have directivity control between 45hz (when subs cross to horn) and 400hz (see sim)

So in that respect, the Genelec might outperform it. I'd like to hear them side by side.

 

[srrxr71]

bass power below 25 Hz?

Just output in general. Ability to sit further. Ability to serve perhaps more than one position. Bass that is controlled directionally below 300Hz.

 

[Axo1989]

That "attractive" stuff is definitely costly in terms of paying a competent designer to do it before even getting to the materials, etc.

Genelec aren't averse to doing that. Have you met Harri?

 

[Spocko]

I expected a large speaker, but this definitely exceeded my expectations - in a good way. The cost and performance of these speakers are definitely geared to a very specific target market (not me!). I look forward to seeing which studios (music or movie) will be buying these for their mastering!

 

[srrxr71]

Hyperion does not seem to have directivity control between 45hz (when subs cross to horn) and 400hz (see sim)

So in that respect, the Genelec might outperform it. I'd like to hear them side by side.

I have a feeling these might outperform the Beosound 90 for $50k less.

 

[srrxr71]

Wikl
Will there be a smaller version 8371?

It exists. It’s called 8361 + w371. Apparently either that or the 8351 + w371 is the 8371. This one is another level hence 8381.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

people were disappointed that the MDF lacked the durability of aluminum; however, for smaller monitors that would be moved around and thrown about (into the back of a car, broadcast van, into a gear locker, etc.) and subject to scratches/damage like the KH120 this makes sense but for something as large as these Genelecs, I don't think it makes a huge difference.

More than that is...
MDF is cheap... if you make a speaker who use MDF make it CHEAP like the materials.

Al is expensier, MDF is very easy to find and cheap. Why speakers made from MDF are expensive? if they use MDF now, the price will be less not more.
Also, i don't see a reason why a big mdf speaker should cost like a car.

 

[Pearljam5000]

It exists. It’s called 8361 + w371. Apparently either that or the 8351 + w371 is the 8371. This one is another level hence 8381.

They could make the same monitor just with smaller drivers
10-12 inch

 

[Axo1989]

I have a feeling these might outperform the Beosound 90 for $50k less.

Are you certain of the pricing? But anyway they are somewhat different designs for different situations. The Genelec doesn't do beam forming, the B&O does. The B&O doesn't do cardiod ... etc.

But for the metal fetishists here, the B&O chassis is aluminium: 65 kg of the total 137 kg apparently.