Neumann KH150

[changer]

It really spoils a thread if enthusiasts fancy about their favorite taste in enclosure material, while the product is already finalized.

@Hörzone, how wide is the image? I assume the radiation pattern is not super wide, due to the waveguide and matched directivity. And where is the image located? Towards the listening position, between speakers or behind?

 

[Matias]

"Composite polycarbonate"

 

[changer]

Personally Aluminum speakers just sounded better to me.

We know this by now, you have not kept it a secret.

 

[Pearljam5000]

We know this by now, you have not kept it a secret.

He asked if it's a personal preference so i answered him, it's not that I mentioned it without any reason or context
Besides I don't know anyone on the planet that would prefer plastic over aluminum

 

[HarmonicTHD]

He asked if it's a personal preference so i answered him, it's not that I mentioned it without any reason or context
Besides I don't know anyone on the planet that would prefer plastic over aluminum

… right… anyone on the planet sure …

So who is buying all those many other speakers not made of aluminum?

 

[thewas]

Like i said Aluminum is much more expensive than plastic (?) or MDF, if it had no advantages whatsoever Genelec wouldn't have used it basically in every 8000 series monitors.

The reasons are more related to the shape and in house production costs as written above. Genelec also shortly had from a monitor series from synthetic recyclable material which wasn't worse then alu, but it wasn't a success mainly to bad marketing. The biggest and most expensive monitors from Genelec are also from MDF.

He asked if it's a personal preference so i answered him, it's not that I mentioned it without any reason or context
Besides I don't know anyone on the planet that would prefer plastic over aluminum

Such oversimplified black&white "truths" are not expedient, I for example would prefer a well engineered MDF one to a ringing alu one.

Not to mention Magico.

Magico also uses Mundorf crossover parts which Genelec doesn't use, so Genelec cannot be that good then...

 

[Pearljam5000]

… right… anyone on the planet sure …

So who is buying all those many other speakers not made of aluminum?

Ask anyone if they had a theoretical choice between plastic and aluminum for the same speaker at the same price , i doubt anyone would choose plastic over aluminum

 

[Pearljam5000]

The reasons are more related to the shape and in house production costs as written above. Genelec also shortly had from a monitor series from synthetic recyclable material which wasn't worse then alu, but it wasn't a success mainly to bad marketing. The biggest and most expensive monitors from Genelec are also from MDF.


Such oversimplified black&white "truths" are not expedient, I for example would prefer a well engineered MDF one to a ringing alu one.


Magico also uses Mundorf crossover parts which Genelec doesn't use, so Genelec cannot be that good then...

There's no contradiction, it's not either garbage aluminum or well engineered MDF.
Regarding Magico, like I said it would be much cheaper for them to use plastic and if Aluminum was worst acoustically and durability wise, they would not use it.
To my ears aluminum cabinets just sound better, look better and also feel better.

 

[changer]

Ask anyone if they had a theoretical choice between plastic and aluminum for the same speaker at the same price , i doubt anyone would choose plastic over aluminum

can you plz stop it? !!!

 

[Pearljam5000]

can you plz stop it? !!!

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Ask anyone if they had a theoretical choice between plastic and aluminum for the same speaker at the same price , i doubt anyone would choose plastic over aluminum

Yes it is your personal preference but don’t make it to everyone else’s. You are not speaking for everyone else or the entire planet, last time I checked. At least three people are contradicting you so it can’t be anyone can’t it?

Besides in every other Genelec / Neumann thread your state your opinion about Aluminum. And when asked you can’t provide any proof. And people tell you it doesn’t matter what material you use, if Aluminum, MDF or unobtanium, because the engineering and the replicable and measurable result are what counts.

Unless your personal requirement is to regularly throw your speakers down the stairs, then Alu is most likely to fare better.

Both Genelec and Neumann are excellently measuring and sounding speaker despite their difference in material.

 

[SlothRock]

Some of you folks are so snobby about “measurements are god above every other possible preference you could ever have”. Do they matter? Duh. Do I want my products to be high quality, reliable and durable? Duh.

I could produce a fart that measures perfectly along the Harman target and it would probably get praised here. Preferences still matter. Why does it need to be all or nothing? I love my 120A’s, I have no doubt the 150’s will be killer as well. I can’t be disappointed cuz they’re seeming to go backwards from a materials perspective?

 

[Rednaxela]

How about chocolate?

I think that would taste by far the best. Don’t care about the measurements.

 

[jae]

It could be built with popsicle sticks and vulcanized bubblegum, as long as it spins well and priced appropriately.

 

[thewas]

There's no contradiction, it's not either garbage aluminum or well engineered MDF.

Why does Genelec use MDF than on their most expensive products?

Regarding Magico, like I said it would be much cheaper for them to use plastic and if Aluminum was worst acoustically and durability wise, they would not use it.

Its just one of the typical high end USP, same like drivers made from unobtainium or crossover components soldered only at full moon from fairies.

To my ears aluminum cabinets just sound better, look better and also feel better.

Feel is the main existing difference (due to different thermal conductivity) as a good cabinet doesn't/shouldn't sound and you don't see the aluminium but just the top paint coat (except the recent Genelec RAW versions).

 

[YSC]

I personally enjoys the Genelecs but if something is well engineered with good reference sound plus it didn’t get red hot and broken down easily I won’t care what they are made of

 

[DBA ndreas]

Klein + Hummel O 110 and P 110 (predecessor of Neumann KH 120) were also made of some plastic material they called „LRIM“. I still enjoy my passive P 110. These things still rock after more than a decade.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

@Pearljam5000 It would have saved you a lot of misery if you had just kept your KH120 back then and first looked for the reason why they didn't sound good in your 3x3m room despite good measurements. With a measurement microphone you could have first dedicated yourself to the room acoustics, could have perhaps later added a KH750 and a MA1 and would now know infinitely more about what works in your room than after 2 years of asking questions.

I am curious what the KH150 will cost. After all, the material is also a price issue, and you also have to consider that aluminum has extremely large energy requirements. This is not only a cost factor but also pollutes the environment. Not to mention the weight: In the pictures, it looks like the KH150 has the same mounting points as the KH80 and KH120 - i.e., you can use the same wall mounts from Neumann, for example (this would not be possible if the speaker was much heavier than the KH120, because the mounts are not designed for much more weight). With aluminum, it would probably have been heavier, more expensive, and less practical - presumably without any gain for the sound, I assume, since I would be surprised if Neumann were to show any weakness here. And all of this only for the feeling?

 

[TimVG]

I care
And also many others
You think Genelec is using Aluminum just for fun?
It sounds better, and more durable
MDF is a step backwards

How many speakers have you designed?

 

[Hörzone]

It really spoils a thread if enthusiasts fancy about their favorite taste in enclosure material, while the product is already finalized.

@Hörzone, how wide is the image? I assume the radiation pattern is not super wide, due to the waveguide and matched directivity. And where is the image located? Towards the listening position, between speakers or behind?

which of the pictures do you mean, the one in front of the screen? That's 3 meters. The sweet spot is still very good there!

Regarding the housing: I have known Markus Wolff (head developer at Neumann) for 20 years. The developments at Neumann are carried out with extensive measurements. If the material had a disadvantage, Markus would not use it. In the meantime, I have initiated 4 or 5 workshops at the development center with interested parties, which shows the effort that is made there. thewas was also there twice. I will gladly share the next date here, if we can do something again this year, Covid has made it impossible the last few years.