Neumann KH150

[DJBonoBobo]

The AES67 version has 2 ethernet ports.

 

[Pearljam5000]

If I don't plan on buying the MA 1
is there point in buying the KH150?

 

[abrxxx]

If I don't plan on buying the MA 1
is there point in buying the KH150?

Yes.

It Depends.

According to the new SOS review, the MA1 made an appreciable but small improvement. But if you're going to spend so much money on a stereo pair of monitors, might as well buy the MA1 as well.

You could always sell it once you make your measurements and program the monitors.

 

[fuzzychaos]

If I don't plan on buying the MA 1
is there point in buying the KH150?

I am getting the MA1 later, they were not in stock at Sweetwater. But, they sound excellent right out of the box to me.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I am getting the MA1 later, they were not in stock at Sweetwater. But, they sound excellent right out of the box to me.

Since you're the first one that bought them
What more can you tell us about their sound?

 

[fuzzychaos]

Since you're the first one that bought them
What more can you tell us about their sound?

Accurate, full, very good imaging. Treble is not harsh and the bass is surprisingly deep and not muddy at all. This weekend I may get REW going and measure it.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

If I don't plan on buying the MA 1
is there point in buying the KH150?

If you don't have enough money at first or prefer to use a different solution for EQ, you can of course buy the KH150 as is. It is a good speaker.

But if you reject EQ in an untreated 12sqm room completely, your case would be roughly comparable to someone who spends years thinking about which whisky to buy, which has the best taste in the world, asking a thousand questions to the community about the flavor nuances and production processes ("what kind of oak for the barrel?") - and then eventually decides on one - to then fill up the glass with Coke at home. That can also be very tasty, but...

Another way to show you - here is the KH310 as measured by Amir (estimated in room response - green) and one measured in my 15sqm room without treatment and without EQ (red):

There are for example +10dB deviations around 65Hz and +7dB around 140Hz. Those alone are drowning everything else and make it sound unbearable, at least to me. All those tiny differences between the speakers you are eyeing are laughable compared to the difference you can achieve with a good EQ. Not to mention the hole around 85Hz which sucks every hint of "kick" or "punch" out of every song - i need 2 subwoofers to almost fill this hole.

BTW, this is what it looks like with treatment, subs and MA1-correction in my room (turquoise). Could be a little different listening position, too, so don´t look too closely. The bass is less loud than the estimated in room response, because the latter is calculated for far field, and i am in the near field.

 

[Pearljam5000]

If you don't have enough money at first or prefer to use a different solution for EQ, you can of course buy the KH150 as is. It is a good speaker.

But if you reject EQ in an untreated 12sqm room completely, your case would be roughly comparable to someone who spends years thinking about which whisky to buy, which has the best taste in the world, asking a thousand questions to the community about the flavor nuances and production processes ("what kind of oak for the barrel?") - and then eventually decides on one - to then fill up the glass with Coke at home. That can also be very tasty, but...

Another way to show you - here is the KH310 as measured by Amir (estimated in room response - green) and one measured in my 15sqm room without treatment and without EQ (red):
View attachment 246725

There are for example +10dB deviations around 65Hz and +7dB around 140Hz. Those alone are drowning everything else and make it sound unbearable, at least to me. All those tiny differences between the speakers you are eyeing are laughable compared to the difference you can achieve with a good EQ. Not to mention the hole around 85Hz which sucks every hint of "kick" or "punch" out of every song - i need 2 subwoofers to almost fill this hole.

BTW, this is what it looks like with treatment, subs and MA1-correction in my room (turquoise). Could be a little different listening position, too, so don´t look too closely. The bass is less loud than the estimated in room response, because the latter is calculated for far field, and i am in the near field.
View attachment 246735

Thanks for the comment
Really appreciate it

 

[Slyman]

If you don't have enough money at first or prefer to use a different solution for EQ, you can of course buy the KH150 as is. It is a good speaker.

But if you reject EQ in an untreated 12sqm room completely, your case would be roughly comparable to someone who spends years thinking about which whisky to buy, which has the best taste in the world, asking a thousand questions to the community about the flavor nuances and production processes ("what kind of oak for the barrel?") - and then eventually decides on one - to then fill up the glass with Coke at home. That can also be very tasty, but...

Another way to show you - here is the KH310 as measured by Amir (estimated in room response - green) and one measured in my 15sqm room without treatment and without EQ (red):
View attachment 246725

There are for example +10dB deviations around 65Hz and +7dB around 140Hz. Those alone are drowning everything else and make it sound unbearable, at least to me. All those tiny differences between the speakers you are eyeing are laughable compared to the difference you can achieve with a good EQ. Not to mention the hole around 85Hz which sucks every hint of "kick" or "punch" out of every song - i need 2 subwoofers to almost fill this hole.

BTW, this is what it looks like with treatment, subs and MA1-correction in my room (turquoise). Could be a little different listening position, too, so don´t look too closely. The bass is less loud than the estimated in room response, because the latter is calculated for far field, and i am in the near field.
View attachment 246735

Great comment. Really makes you see the importance of EQ vs speaker difference indeed. Alas no REW for Mac yet, so speakers with dsp it must be.

Isn't there a better way to fix a null than 2 subwoofer tho?

Also its funny like most of these charts (and my own included) always have a huge spike at around 130hz and a null at around 80hz. Its even more annoying that this for me is only a problem at my desk. if i walk away to another point in the room the peak disappears. This is all by ear.

Once again great comment!

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Great comment. Really makes you see the importance of EQ vs speaker difference indeed. Alas no REW for Mac yet, so speakers with dsp it must be.

Isn't there a better way to fix a null than 2 subwoofer tho?

Also its funny like most of these charts (and my own included) always have a huge spike at around 130hz and a null at around 80hz. Its even more annoying that this for me is only a problem at my desk. if i walk away to another point in the room the peak disappears. This is all by ear.

Once again great comment!

Thanks. I did not find a better way. I tried 2 AVAAs before i bought the subs, but they did not help with this in my room.
I think this common shape in bass has something to do with the typical room height and typical ear height in a room when sitting on an office chair.

 

[Philberish]

So in this review it says that, for the DSP to work, both speakers need to be on the same network. Does that mean you need to spring for the AES67 version of the KH150's to use the MA 1? How else would they get on the same network?

Sorry, that's my fault for not being clear enough in the SOS review (although my excuse is that I was running out of words). The AES67 KH150 assumes two networks - one for control (MA 1), one for audio. You probably wouldn't want your audio and general data on the same network anyway. The standard KH150 has just the control network socket.

Phil

 

[abrxxx]

Somebody please send one to Amir for review!

 

[Pearljam5000]

Somebody please send one to Amir for review!

Why not 2

 

[kimmosto]

Why not 2 to Erin to get more comprehensive measurements. Amir's measurements are model year 1986 when everything else except magnitude response was filtered from speaker science (by Toole and Olive).

 

[changer]

Why not 2 to Erin to get more comprehensive measurements.

Erin is currently not measuring new speakers, the details why you can learn about from the video on youtube before his last.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Why not 2 to Erin to get more comprehensive measurements. Amir's measurements are model year 1986 when everything else except magnitude response was filtered from speaker science (by Toole and Olive).

Then why are you on this forum?

 

[kimmosto]

Then why are you on this forum?

Maybe self torturing, but don't forget that I have already published basic measurements of KH150 in this thread. Not captured with NFS but should be quite close. Those were just few quick screenshots from VituixCAD, but still more comprehensive than typical Amir's measurements.

 

[kimmosto]

Here is polarmap in hor and ver plane. These are not normalized which is correct option for evaluation of off-axis balance.

 

[AudioJester]

Thanks. I did not find a better way. I tried 2 AVAAs before i bought the subs, but they did not help with this in my room.
I think this common shape in bass has something to do with the typical room height and typical ear height in a room when sitting on an office chair.

Are you listening in nearfield? That is using as monitors?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Are you listening in nearfield? That is using as monitors?

1.5 meters.