Neumann KH150

[thewas]

Ok
Im just bummed that if they were 8 inch you could probably use than from 3m away (if you add a sub) and 7 inch is borderline on that SPL wise
Basically I want the ultimate 2-way to be used as "mains" that doesn't break the bank and its close to that.
Maybe the Genelec S360 is closer to that (10 inch woofer btw) but expensive

By writing listening distances like 3m you write yourself why this is not really interesting for the market as you go to midfield monitors.
Also a classic 8" two-way might give enough SPL but due to its directivity is still not recommended for 3 meters, you see how small the differences are between the 8330, 8340 and 8350:

The S360 uses a horn tweeter so it can be crossed lower and like you say is a different price class. By the way a modern hightech 6,5" driver like the Purify can beat many 8" distortion wise so I would wait for the measurements of the KH 150.
If you care just about high SPL and directivity for large listening distances for a lower budget I would recommend looking rather at some good PA loudspeakers.

 

[Pearljam5000]

By writing listening distances like 3m you write yourself why this is not really interesting for the market as you go to midfield monitors.
Also a classic 8" two-way might give enough SPL but due to its directivity is still not recommended for 3 meters, you see how small the differences are between the 8330, 8340 and 8350:

The S360 uses a horn tweeter so it can be crossed lower and like you say is a different price class. By the way a modern hightech 6,5" driver like the Purify can beat many 8" distortion wise so I would wait for the measurements of the KH 150.
If you care just about high SPL and directivity for large listening distances for a lower budget I would recommend looking rather at some good PA loudspeakers.

Thanks
Anyways I'm excited for it and there's a big chance ill buy them because even the tiny KH120 sounded big and had a lot of bass for its size, so it should be a KH120 on steroids
Is it possible to use their DSP with a non Neumann sub?

 

[thewas]

Is it possible to use their DSP with a non Neumann sub?

Since they have the DSP included you don't necessarily need a Neumann DSP sub if you want to use the options the Neumann DSP offers, mind you that you might need some iterative steps and measurements for optimal crossover settings which you possibly wouldn't need with a Neumann sub.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Sure, since they have the DSP included you don't necessarily need a Neumann DSP sub if you want to use the options the Neumann DSP offers, mind you that you might need some iterative steps and measurements for optimal crossover settings which you possibly wouldn't need with a Neumann sub.

My dream is a setup like this with either Neumann or Genelec

 

[Mario Sanchez]

Which same old drivers and cabinets are you talking about??? Its a completely new construction and bigger than the KH120 which is 5".

Also why should it cost less than the 8340 which is the Genelec DSP equivalent? I also hope it wouldn't cost more than the 8040 but that is more personal wishful thinking.

Talking about drivers......
I'm willing to bet five bucks that it's gonna be the same titanium-composite tweeter that Neumann uses (to great success) on their other speakers - from kh80 to kh310 and maybe even the kh420.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Talking about drivers......
I'm willing to bet five bucks that it's gonna be the same titanium-composite tweeter that Neumann uses (to great success) on their other speakers - from kh80 to kh310 and maybe even the kh420.

That's my assumption also, and people didn't like it, it's just common sense
Also it doesn't make sense they will have a worst tweeter in the KH420

 

[changer]

The geometrically necessary baffle size for an 8" would allow for a three-way. The three-way, given the same amount of care in the design, is always better. A subwoofer cannot compensate for a too small box, as distortion, and most prominently ignored, the intermodulation explodes even higher in the frequency range - 200Hz?

Many Neumans or Genelecs are just used as monitors. They don't need to be loud and clean, as the only purpose is to observe the transmssion line, not to critically evaluate a recording regarding detailed sound properties.

This is too generalizing. Have a look at the performance of the following 2-way that also works into sub-bass areas and is crossed at 1.6k IIRC:

Genelec S360A High SPL Monitor im Test

Mit dem Modell S360A betritt der finnische Hersteller Genelec in gewissen Bereichen Neuland. Waren bislang alle Monitore in klassischer Manier mit Kombinationen aus Konus Tief- und Mitteltönern und einer Hochtonkalotte bestückt, so verlässt man bei der S360A jetzt diesen Weg und setzt auf eine...

www.soundandrecording.de

Simplified said the bigger the driver is the earlier break up modes and directivity rises which make crossing to a typical dome tweeter a problem.

If the proposition is a dome tweeter without a waveguide, okay. Your other point is related to individual driver performance.

 

[dfuller]

If the proposition is a dome tweeter without a waveguide, okay. Your other point is related to individual driver performance.

Yes and no. Larger diameter drivers have lower breakup modes just by virtue of being larger, given the same construction otherwise compared to a smaller driver. if you have a tweeter that can handle being crossed lower than normal and a stonking big waveguide/horn (i.e., the JBL thing), then sure - go for it. Otherwise, you're looking at a 3-way design if you want a big bass driver.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Since they have the DSP included you don't necessarily need a Neumann DSP sub if you want to use the options the Neumann DSP offers, mind you that you might need some iterative steps and measurements for optimal crossover settings which you possibly wouldn't need with a Neumann sub.

It will compete with it i guess

 

[BDE]

As exciting as the speculations are, maybe Neumann like to get involved in the discussion?
@GuyLayfield are there any plans to put the KH150 into production, timeline, colours? Maybe you like to share some insigths?

Many thanks and best regards!

 

[thewas]

If the proposition is a dome tweeter without a waveguide, okay. Your other point is related to individual driver performance.

Not only, the problem of rising size causing more breakup problems too close at the upper mids is significant, look at Genelecs biggest model and flagship, it uses 2x 5" mid drivers instead of one larger one. https://www.genelec.com/1236a

This is too generalizing. Have a look at the performance of the following 2-way that also works into sub-bass areas and is crossed at 1.6k IIRC:

It is an option for people needing high directivity for a limited budget, for highest reproduction quality they offer the more expensive 3-way mid and main field monitors.

 

[thewas]

That's my assumption also, and people didn't like it, it's just common sense
Also it doesn't make sense they will have a worst tweeter in the KH420

As said it can be the same one but as long as we don't know it, it is just speculation so we shouldn't do claims without factual back up. Also using a newer or different one doesn't necessarily mean it will be worse or better and look at the LS50 Meta, it was the first model that got the new meta material absorber, before the flagships, there will be one point when the transition is done to a newer one.

 

[GuyLayfield]

As exciting as the speculations are, maybe Neumann like to get involved in the discussion?
@GuyLayfield are there any plans to put the KH150 into production, timeline, colours? Maybe you like to share some insigths?

Many thanks and best regards!

I'm afraid I can't comment on the specific questions in this thread, as all details are currently being finalised by our Portfolio Management. A press release should come out soon followed by detailed specifications, this should answer most or all of these questions. It's very good to see the interest already generated!

 

[Pearljam5000]

I'm afraid I can't comment on the specific questions in this thread, as all details are currently being finalised by our Portfolio Management. A press release should come out soon followed by detailed specifications, this should answer most or all of these questions. It's very good to see the interest already generated!

Please make it affordable so more of us could enjoy it

 

[changer]

It is an option for people needing high directivity for a limited budget, for highest reproduction quality they offer the more expensive 3-way mid and main field monitors.

Your technical argumentation seems as grounded as always. However, 'limited budget' is decieving here: For professional mastering studios, yes, for the likes of the classy HiFi dude, yes. But in comparison with many highly regarded mid-of-the-field high performing HiFi speakers this message board loves to deliberate about, I would question the quality impairment is noticeable.

Yes and no. Larger diameter drivers have lower breakup modes just by virtue of being larger, given the same construction otherwise compared to a smaller driver. if you have a tweeter that can handle being crossed lower than normal and a stonking big waveguide/horn (i.e., the JBL thing), then sure - go for it. Otherwise, you're looking at a 3-way design if you want a big bass driver.

It is very much a question how good these modes are controlled. Even Purifi is pushing for bigger drivers now. For their current 2-way, Genelec uses a very innert coated paper cone with high Mms. As Anselm Goertz wrote, they sound fantastic and measure so. This is strictly a result of precisely a low crossed tweeter and a high crossed mid-woofer.

I wouldn't argue that a 3-way has technical advantages in absolute terms. In a direct, subjective comparison, the S360A lost against the KH420, but left the JBL 708P behind:

Test of new speakers for HT Atmos stage - Gearspace.com

We're right now testing the LCR candidates for our new Dolby certified HT Atmos room: Neumann KH420, Genelec S360, JBL 708p will keep you updated how we decide..

gearspace.com

But this must be set into perspective. They will still leave behind the majority of the field.

 

[thewas]

Your technical argumentation seems as grounded as always. However, 'limited budget' is decieving here: For professional mastering studios, yes, for the likes of the classy HiFi dude, yes. But in comparison with many highly regarded mid-of-the-field high performing HiFi speakers this message board loves to deliberate about, I would question the quality impairment is noticeable.

Thank you for your kind words and I agree, compared to upmost Hifi loudspeakers I would also take the S360.

 

[amfd3423]

If it is same or lower price than Focal Solo6 Be, I think I will buy it.

 

[changer]

Guys, Neumann management probably is not adjusting their studio monitor price range according to the needs of some geeks!

(note to admins, again: essential smiley missing, official nomenclature "Grinning Face with Sweat": -->

)

 

[Pearljam5000]

Guys, Neumann management probably is not adjusting their studio monitor price range according to the needs of some geeks!

(note to admins, again: essential smiley missing, official nomenclature "Grinning Face with Sweat": -->

)

I think geeks like us buy more studio monitors than professionals that do own a studio lol

 

[TurtlePaul]

Since this is a DSP monitor, I wonder if they can make it with SPDIF Coax or AES/EBU. Would seem to be way more common/useful than AES 97.

Not that I am their target audience, but it would be nice to be able to connect these via a cheap adaptor to a stereo digital chain without needing to buy an XLR DAC for a monitor which is internally digital anyways.