Neumann KH 310A Review (Powered Monitor)

[respice finem]

Recommended distance by neumann 1m 2,5 m.
I never understood why audiophile do not respect the manual.

You may go well into midfield, I guess I've read of up to 7 m, but generally you're right of course, the performance will definitely worsen with distance because of rising room influence, and you would need at least one subwoofer.
Another thing many overlook in the manual, are the recommended distances to the rear wall and side walls.
And last but not least, one tiny detail: 1 cm tolerance for optimum positioning. Good luck with that, took almost a day in my room (but the result is worth it).

 

[DJBonoBobo]

1 cm tolerance for optimum positioning.

Yes, very important. I use a laser distance-meter, a protractor and another laser-tool to draw a straight line as reference from back wall to the protractor. Getting angles and distance really correct made a huge difference. Same for symmetry (desk, screen...) btw.

 

[respice finem]

For me the biggest challenge was the (slight) downward angle, which was needed because of the room properties.
This can be probably done precisely enough only with a laser.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

For me the biggest challenge was the (slight) downward angle, which was needed because of the room properties.
This can be probably done precisely enough only with a laser.

Smartphone-sensors and a level-app are compatible to Neumann, if you know the correct angle. Much harder to do with a Genelec-egg, i guess

 

[respice finem]

Interesting idea, I've never tried to use the smartphone as a level. With the Genelecs, yes, even harder, no straight surface, hmm... Some kind of fixture following the main axis would probably be necessary. Every hobby is masochism somehow

 

[LTig]

Recommended distance by neumann 1m 2,5 m.

Recommended for studio work. Neumann does not cater to the hifi market (yet).

I never understood why audiophile do not respect the manual.

Well, maybe because you would end up with a rather big and very expensive speaker for soffit mount? If one wants to replicate the sound of a pro studio in ones living room I agree that it makes sense to follow the manual.

if you look at the properties of studio monitors for distances above 2 m these are narrow dispersion (to reduce room influence) and high SPL (to compensate for the larger distance). Outside the pro market I haven't seen recommended distances in manuals for speakers, and I'm sure most audiophile book shelf speakers of non pro companies neither sport narrow dispersion nor high SPL and hence would not be suited for distances above 2. Even many floor standers do not sport narrow dispersion and hence would neither be suited for distances above 2 m (because the influence of the room is too high).

But we know from Toole's work that more people prefer wide over narrow dispersion when listening for recreational purposes. Therefore it's fine to use a studio monitor with wide dispersion designed for close distances also for longer distances as long as it can play loud enough - which may be much less SPL for a domestic setting compared to a studio. Hence my wife is happy with a pair of tiny Genelec 8020a despite a listening distance of 2.8 m where Genelec's smallest recommended speaker would be the 8351B and the optimum would be the 1236A (in theory - the depth of the speaker housing alone would reduce the listening distance to 1.8 m ).

 

[respice finem]

Sidenote: While Neumann isn't officially catering to home Hi-Fi customers, I suspect they are meanwhile probably selling more of their monitors to home users than to pros. What makes me think so? There are only so many studios "serious enough" to invest in "premium" monitors, the typical podcaster/youtuber or even amateur musician will often prefer cheaper offers like the JBL 308 etc. And those studios that wanted to have Neumanns, already have them, and Neumanns tend to last for decades.

 

[dfuller]

Recommended for studio work. Neumann does not cater to the hifi market (yet).

Well, maybe because you would end up with a rather big and very expensive speaker for soffit mount? If one wants to replicate the sound of a pro studio in ones living room I agree that it makes sense to follow the manual.

if you look at the properties of studio monitors for distances above 2 m these are narrow dispersion (to reduce room influence) and high SPL (to compensate for the larger distance). Outside the pro market I haven't seen recommended distances in manuals for speakers, and I'm sure most audiophile book shelf speakers of non pro companies neither sport narrow dispersion nor high SPL and hence would not be suited for distances above 2. Even many floor standers do not sport narrow dispersion and hence would neither be suited for distances above 2 m (because the influence of the room is too high).

High SPL yes, narrow dispersion not necessarily. ATC (yes, I know I bring them up a lot, but they're in a lot of big name studios) quote +/- 80 degrees horizontal as fine. Whether or not that's true I don't know because I've not seen any spins other than the clearly not great SCM19 V1, but the fact that they even mention it tells me they put at least some thought into it. Apparently they've recently started waveguiding their tweeters too, so that's progress.

For big studio mains wide dispersion isn't a bad idea as the speakers are usually mounted midfield or further and if you have a big console you might be moving around quite a bit side to side so wide off-axis is not a horrible idea.

Even something as massive as a KH420 (which, by the way, not a small box!) isn't really a farfield main. No, we're talking something the size of the ATC SCM100ASL, which is as tall as a normal floorstander but far wider (it has to be, it has a 12" woofer!), or even larger.

 

[brandall10]

Sidenote: While Neumann isn't officially catering to home Hi-Fi customers, I suspect they are meanwhile probably selling more of their monitors to home users than to pros. What makes me think so? There are only so many studios "serious enough" to invest in "premium" monitors, the typical podcaster/youtuber or even amateur musician will often prefer cheaper offers like the JBL 308 etc. And those studios that wanted to have Neumanns, already have them, and Neumanns tend to last for decades.

While I agree a pro youtuber or podcaster might not be the market, there is a sizable home hobbyist market composed of people who have a lot of disposable income for gear and have no intention of making $$ it, ie. software engineers with no family to take care of. The same folks who have no qualms putting $4k into a PRS guitar.

 

[respice finem]

Basically what I'm saying, not pro/studio people, but, well, "prosumers" buying for their own home setups. Including myself.

 

[Pearljam5000]

 

[brandall10]

Basically what I'm saying, not pro/studio people, but, well, "prosumers" buying for their own home setups. Including myself.

Sorry, I was keying off the "amateur musician" portion of your comment. I thought you meant as a home stereo alternative in farfield use. I think because of ASR more people might use them like that, but by and large these are probably nearfield monitors in this newer market.

 

[respice finem]

I think in any home stereo setup, farfield should be avoided with any speakers, the smaller the "stereo triangle" is, the better the SQ (by minimizing the room influence). In studios and heavily treated rooms midfield may be OK, farfield is IMHO rather a "PA thing". That's why it is so difficult to build a really good midsize home cinema, for 5 and more people you will need a larger room, and more distance to the speakers. Without proper treatment "chaos reigns" and even waveguides can't do miracles, with reflexions dominating.

 

[brandall10]

I think in any home stereo setup, farfield should be avoided with any speakers, the smaller the "stereo triangle" is, the better the SQ (by minimizing the room influence). In studios and heavily treated rooms midfield may be OK, farfield is IMHO rather a "PA thing". That's why it is so difficult to build a really good midsize home cinema.

I just mean using it for a normal home stereo application vs. using as near field monitors for music production.

 

[respice finem]

That's exactly my use case (2m triangle) and it works very well.

 

[brandall10]

That's exactly my use case (2m triangle) and it works very well.

Understood and it's a totally viable use case, I just think it's relatively rare for monitors like these and Genelecs. It's mostly folks who are on ASR and perhaps Gearslutz who use power studio monitors in this type of application.

 

[respice finem]

Yes, but those are not so few IMHO. I'm seeing a slow but steady trend from passive to active, which was virtually nonexistent in home setups 20+ years ago. The only ones who might provide reliable data about buyers are the distributors. IDK if they would do it, but then again, why not?

Maybe Amir could say, how many home (or non-pro) users are buying studio monitors and other studio stuff (like me with the RME ADI2-DAC)?

One of the reasons may be the compact setup possible with monitors. They require less space, compared to the old-age "stereo tower", at least as long as you don't have a turntable. Active speakers / small monitors are also a simple and convenient solution for desk setups, no need for amp space etc.

 

[Frgirard]

I have two k+h O300.
With a woofer axis at 94 cm above the floor, floor cancelation.
How much have the KH310 against the front wall to avoid the SBIR?

To fight the floor cancelation, I use now a Kh420 and the O300 are in a little room, heard at 1 meter.

SBIR and floor cancellation.

 

[Frgirard]

Yes, but those are not so few IMHO. I'm seeing a slow but steady trend from passive to active, which was virtually nonexistent in home setups 20+ years ago. The only ones who might provide reliable data about buyers are the distributors. IDK if they would do it, but then again, why not?

Maybe Amir could say, how many home (or non-pro) users are buying studio monitors and other studio stuff (like me with the RME ADI2-DAC)?

One of the reasons may be the compact setup possible with monitors. They require less space, compared to the old-age "stereo tower", at least as long as you don't have a turntable. Active speakers / small monitors are also a simple and convenient solution for desk setups, no need for amp space etc.

the performance / price ratio of the monitors is unbeatable

 

[respice finem]

I'm no acoustics expert, but it will probably depend on factors like hard floor or carpet, distances to remaining walls etc. The manual is very detailed, but can't account for every practical situation. I'm afraid the only way to find out is measure, relocate, measure again...
I got rid of my ceiling bounce (only 2,45 m room height) by placing the speakers higher (acoustic center @ 1,14 m) and facing slightly downward "aiming" at my hearing position. Just an example, what works for one room won't work identically for another.