Needs help with subwoofer integration

[Aubergine]

Shouldn't a subwoofer already be " eq". I mean in the sense that the subwoofer should out of the box compensate for the fletcher munson curve. So the perceived loudness of the frequency range is the same. This seems especially important with lower bass like this. Seems like a gigantic oversight for someone who makes a subwoofer not to take that into account.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

@abdo123 Everyone that I know that has starting measuring phase in real time using smaart, systune, open sound meter, etc, will not go back to just using REW.
I use REW for moving mic measurements and their EQ window is still awesome. It really is a great program. But the time savings of those other to get other things the rest of the way is amazing. The results are also much better.

Setting and checking phase issues took like 5-10 minutes for me. Most of it was because the dsp I am using has some connection drop out issues with my computer (Dayton dsp-k and ke board with sigma studio).

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Shouldn't a subwoofer already be " eq". I mean in the sense that the subwoofer should out of the box compensate for the fletcher munson curve. So the perceived loudness of the frequency range is the same. This seems especially important with lower bass like this. Seems like a gigantic oversight for someone who makes a subwoofer not to take that into account.

No. It is below the frequencies where room issues take over (Schroder Frequency). Every single room and location you place that subwoofer will result in differences in how it sounds.

Low frequencies MUST have eq to fix issues. You must know what you need to fix by taking in room measurements. Then moving the subwoofer to get the best natural response. After that, a dsp is the easiest way to fix the issues. Multiple subwoofers can help a lot too, but then you really need a way to integrate all of them together, usually again a dsp.

I would suggest looking into a DIRAC device if you don't want to go down the rabbit hole.

 

[Aubergine]

So all subwoofers then out of the box will only be able to play lower frequencies that you can hear at a moderate or quiet volume level if you have increased the overall bass level?

 

[Jdunk54nl]

So all subwoofers then out of the box will only be able to play lower frequencies at moderate to quiet volume levels if the overall bass level is increased?

100% depends on your room and what subwoofer you are using. You will get some room gain, but also cancellations. But your sub naturally has to be able to play those frequencies to begin with.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/subwoofer-comparison.20494/

 

[Jdunk54nl]

You can see (in the no eq measurement posted a couple back) my sub naturally plays really well 70hz to about 120hz. I have no expectation of it to reach 20hz or sub 20hz. I was actually suprised I could coax it to get down to ~30hz. But it is definitely running into compression issues at that point if I turn up the overall volume.

 

[Aubergine]

100% depends on your room and what subwoofer you are using. You will get some room gain, but also cancellations. But your sub naturally has to be able to play those frequencies to begin with.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/subwoofer-comparison.20494/

What would the " perfect " room look like? Frequency response that doesn't change with the SPL.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Before any EQ it sounded interesting. Let's just go with that. Speakers were calling attention to themselves and there was not a distinct center image. Sub was also messing up quite a bit.

After just EQ and distance time alignment, there was a better center image, but the sub was calling attention to itself. I had 0ms delay for left speaker and sub and 0.55ms for right speaker. Like I said, everything summed semi-well in moving mic measurments in REW RTA screen, but something was off.

Opened SMAART and measured each speaker and set phase based on that to get 0ms for sub, 4.0ms for left speaker, and 4.55ms for right speaker. Now everything just disappears. You only know a sub is playin when I turn it off and realize you are missing the low end. I also saw a couple spots where I could use all pass filters. I didn't in this case due to time, but may go back and fix that area if I get more time. They are not in frequencies that are a huge deal and it is a narrow area.


Before any EQ:
View attachment 144842

After EQ: Took about 3 filters on subwoofer with crossover and about 10 filters on each speaker with crossover.
View attachment 144843

Fantastic graph. Lets be honest, it is all due to the Crown amp. I'm joking but I do like to see Crown amps doing awesome on an audio system.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

What would the " perfect " room look like? Frequency response that doesn't change with the SPL.

One that is utilizing a dsp of some sorts or an anechoic chamber.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Fantastic graph. Lets be honest, it is all due to the Crown amp. I'm joking but I do like to see Crown amps doing awesome on an audio system.

The crown amp is at home, that is my "office" setup. Aiymia a07 for the PE Cnote speakers and a a polk audio psw110 with a dayton 100w rms subwoofer plate amp since the original amp died. Terrible sub, but I had it and the sub amp was $45 on restock. so figured why not.

 

[Aubergine]

One that is utilizing a dsp of some sorts or an anechoic chamber.

My subwoofer says its 3 db down at 35hz. So if i want to be able to hear that at a moderate listening volume and keep the frequency response flat id have to boost that a ton no? And id prob run into port noise at that point.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

My subwoofer says its 3 db down at 35hz. So if i want to be able to hear that at a moderate listening volume and keep the frequency response flat id have to boost that a ton no? And id prob run into port noise at that point.

what sub? Sounds like it is a pretty crappy sub to be 3db down at 35hz. (although my in room measurement was 3db down by 60hz )

 

[Aubergine]

what sub? Sounds like it is a pretty crappy sub to be 3db down at 35hz.

KRK S8G4

 

[Jdunk54nl]

KRK S8G4

You can expect much low extension from a 100w 8" sub at loud volumes, especially when the mfr says -3db point is 35hz. I would bet money that your response would like similar to my sub with no eq.

 

[Aubergine]

Could you recommend a subwoofer that can go down to 30 flat? I would buy that as long as its not too expensive and has xlr

 

[Aubergine]

https://www.thomann.de/gb/prodipe_pro_10s_v3_active_subwoofer.htm

 

[Spkrdctr]

I would recommend looking at reviews of the SVS PB1000 Pro sub. It will get you into the range of a real subwoofer. Worth every Penney.

 

[Aubergine]

I would recommend looking at reviews of the SVS PB1000 Pro sub. It will get you into the range of a real subwoofer. Worth every Penney.

Im sure my neighbors would love that

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Swapping a sub alone isn't going to fix a bunch of issues. You have to have a dsp to fix the peaks. The room dominates these frequencies.

SVS pro models come with a built in dsp to correct for this. They are good if you don't want to go stand alone

Monoprice monolith are great but you need separate dsp to fix issues.

If you do not want to get a dsp somewhere to correct frequencies, then get the svs, you need dsp....

In case I wasn't clear. YOU NEED DSP below the Schroeder frequency in ANY ROOM besides an anechoic chamber.

 

[Aubergine]

Swapping a sub alone isn't going to fix a bunch of issues. You have to have a dsp to fix the peaks. The room dominates these frequencies.

SVS pro models come with a built in dsp to correct for this. They are good if you don't want to go stand alone

Monoprice monolith are great but you need separate dsp to fix issues.

I think i will go the EQ route. I dont have my subwoofer on all the time anyway. And it sounds like the EQ route can make my speakers sound better too.