Need a New DAW / Streamer PC

[Jinjuku]

Windows 10 is still Windows which means it's a bifurcated mess of a designed by committee OS. Just like it has always been.

ooookay. Seems to get the job done for me. Full disclosure: I have a Mac Mini with 8GB / 240GB. I've owned:

Mac 512, Mac Plus, Mac SE/30, IICX, Powermac 9600, G4 Tower. Take a guess how long I've been a Mac owner.

 

[Sal1950]

I thought the loopholes that allowed Hackintoshes were closed years ago?

Not sure, haven't played with it for a couple years now. Google hackintosh and there's still tons of current info and jabber going on?
https://www.macworld.com/article/3201034/macs/hackintosh-should-you-build-one.html
https://9to5mac.com/guides/hackintosh/
etc.

Windows 10 is still Windows which means it's a bifurcated mess of a designed by committee OS. Just like it has always been.

My feelings exactly.

 

[watchnerd]

Okay, reading the Hackintosh articles, it seems things haven't changed -- it's still very much a tinkering exercise, somewhat never ending.

If I wasn't working 50-60 hours a week, it might be fun, but I'm looking for a tool, not a new hobby.

 

[Darwin]

ooookay. Seems to get the job done for me. Full disclosure: I have a Mac Mini with 8GB / 240GB. I've owned:

Mac 512, Mac Plus, Mac SE/30, IICX, Powermac 9600, G4 Tower. Take a guess how long I've been a Mac owner.

Lots of things will get the job done. Doesn't mean I want to use them.
I am intimately familiar with the internals of Windows 10 and other Windows versions as well as Mac OS and various Unices and have been for more than 30 years. Windows 10 is the usual spaghetti code except they managed to add in spyware to the point a lot of people consider it malware and it's still a security nightmare because Microsoft never bothered to rewrite the OS to remove all the garbage but just add layers onto existing layers. Ugh. Mediocre at best. Also the literally designed by committee interface is terrible.
I work closely with Microsoft and other companies today by the way designing and building global scale architectures in the financial industry.
I started with the 128k Mac in 1984 and have used Windows since 1.0 and various things before those.

 

[Darwin]

Okay, reading the Hackintosh articles, it seems things haven't changed -- it's still very much a tinkering exercise, somewhat never ending.

If I wasn't working 50-60 hours a week, it might be fun, but I'm looking for a tool, not a new hobby.

Hackintosh is too much trouble for sure. I also run Roon but for that I would run Roon server on an Intel NUC or Sonic Transporter or something similar. You can also run it on a sufficiently specced NAS. I have a Synology 918 + that will run it but I haven't tried it yet.

 

[Jinjuku]

Lots of things will get the job done. Doesn't mean I want to use them.
I am intimately familiar with the internals of Windows 10 and other Windows versions as well as Mac OS and various Unices and have been for more than 30 years. Windows 10 is the usual spaghetti code except they managed to add in spyware to the point a lot of people consider it malware and it's still a security nightmare because Microsoft never bothered to rewrite the OS to remove all the garbage but just add layers onto existing layers. Ugh. Mediocre at best. Also the literally designed by committee interface is terrible.
I work closely with Microsoft and other companies today by the way designing and building global scale architectures in the financial industry.
I started with the 128k Mac in 1984 and have used Windows since 1.0 and various things before those.

Hey, you and me both. Key Bank, PNC, some decent size equity firms etc... Used CPM, DeskView, Amiga (had a A3000 UX based on ATT Unix).

Windows 10 is a tool, OS X is a tool. They each have their aggravations. Windows with the built in advertising is annoying as fuck but you can turn it off. I agree with anyone that has a complaint there.

I don't believe the Apple Tax for it's UI is worth it but I have Macs because I'm required to support them and I'm not coming out of pocket for them.

I have a $480 Windows 10 Pro machine with a 6 core/12 thread XEON with 64GB of Registered, Buffered, ECC RAM. My next mac will be a Hackintosh in Virtualbox if I have my say. You want to talk about a deal breaker: The inability to do VDI with OS X is certainly that. I have misgivings about any OS, but lack of VDI with Apple is unforgivable no matter how much someone want to rail on M$.

 

[watchnerd]

The inability to do VDI with OS X is certainly that. I have misgivings about any OS, but lack of VDI with Apple is unforgivable no matter how much someone want to rail on M$.

What do you need VDI for that you can't do via other means?

 

[Jinjuku]

What do you need VDI for that you can't do via other means?

1. Run it in a fricking VM

What else would there be to my point?

My desktop from three years ago I virtualized in hyper-v. Enabled Remote FX and I get the GPU of the Hypervisor doing the GFX natively.

RAM is dynamically managed, I can make a snapshot before making a change, and revert back in seconds if needed. I can setup another Hyper-visor years from now and export it in real-time without taking down any instances. Yep they run during the move.

Backup the Hypervisor and all my VM's (Including Ubuntu) support integration services in Hyper-V so they backup cleanly also.

I don't have to travel with a $2000 Mac laptop. Just a $379 Dell 14.1 with 8GB, 240GB SSD, with a 1080p touch screen(you can't get that from Apple at any price). There's nothing critically stored on it, I just RDP into my desktop and all work is done there, saved there, backed up there.

If my laptop is stolen I can go get another and RDP right back in. I don't have to worry about lost data or whether or not it was backed up.

I used to be a hired gun for all things Apple for large publishing houses in NE Ohio. Apple Talk networking, Open Transport (TCP/IP). I started my first Virtualization using Connetix Virtual PC on a IICI over clocked with a 20Mhz Crystal I soldered in (and did the same overclock and heatsink for A LOT of customers).

I swear even veteran DTP people didn't understand Postscript Fonts and how to implement and manage them from the OS limitations POV

BTW I didn't start the mud slinging. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I've no lost love for M$ either but I have pretty good pile of stones here myself when it comes to Apple.

 

[watchnerd]

1. Run it in a fricking VM

What else would there be to my point?

I don't see the point of running OSX in a VM.

Any desktop app that is really a 'most run on it on OSX with no Windows equivalent', e.g. Logic Pro, is going to be much better running on native HW.

Office productivity apps -- who cares, use whatever OS.

Development work, use Docker and terminal.

 

[Darwin]

Hey, you and me both. Key Bank, PNC, some decent size equity firms etc... Used CPM, DeskView, Amiga (had a A3000 UX based on ATT Unix).

Windows 10 is a tool, OS X is a tool. They each have their aggravations. Windows with the built in advertising is annoying as fuck but you can turn it off. I agree with anyone that has a complaint there.

I don't believe the Apple Tax for it's UI is worth it but I have Macs because I'm required to support them and I'm not coming out of pocket for them.

I have a $480 Windows 10 Pro machine with a 6 core/12 thread XEON with 64GB of Registered, Buffered, ECC RAM. My next mac will be a Hackintosh in Virtualbox if I have my say. You want to talk about a deal breaker: The inability to do VDI with OS X is certainly that. I have misgivings about any OS, but lack of VDI with Apple is unforgivable no matter how much someone want to rail on M$.

I'm not talking about the advertising as ridiculous and annoying as that is in an OS you have already paid for, I'm talking about the spyware which you cannot turn off.
Amusing that you equate Windows 10 aggravations with OS X like they are anywhere near close in that regard.

 

[Jinjuku]

I'm not talking about the advertising as ridiculous and annoying as that is in an OS you have already paid for, I'm talking about the spyware which you cannot turn off.

If you think this is how you are being 'spied upon'. WOW I don't know what to say? Have a smart phone? Have ANY social media accounts?

 

[amirm]

Could you explain how the "driverless" works/differs from the previous editions? and/or provide explanation references?

(Just in general, not a technical explanation)

THX

Besides the technical explanation that Vincent gave, it means you just plug the DAC in and Windows recognizes it all the way to the highest sample rate. Best part is that it also then gives you "WASAPI" interface means that programs like Roon, JRiver, etc. can then talk to it by bypassing Windows audio stack, giving you "bit exact" output.

I have now tested at least half a dozen DACs of all sorts this way and all I have done is plug them in. It is working surprisingly well.

 

[Jinjuku]

I don't see the point of running OSX in a VM.

Any desktop app that is really a 'most run on it on OSX with no Windows equivalent', e.g. Logic Pro, is going to be much better running on native HW

The thread got off on a tangent because I believe computers to be nothing more than tools and some are a bit fanatical. I find this a lot with Mac users, many that I have forgotten more about Apple products than they know.

Honestly, get Windows 10 Pro, turn off the shit that annoys you via Local Policy. Install Classic Shell. Spend $1000 on a kick ass custom build that will drive a 4K monitor with HDR and 10bit gamut.

AMD Ryzen 1600 $199
MSI B350 Pro-VH Mainboard for $56* Supports 4K @ 24Hz built in
Decent Case and PSU $120
16GB of DDR4 for $160
1TB Samsung EVO SSD 850 $284
$70 video card for 4K display for better than 24Hz refresh(not that Roon and Multi-tracking need it)
Wireless KB / Mouse for $20
Windows 10 Pro for $68

You land at a few $$ less than a thousand and it will kick ass for everything you need. Add what ever monitor you like.

LG 27UD68-p 27" 4K for $400 is a really nice monitor.

Look, you asked for a DAW when I believe you already have your mind set on something else prior to asking.

 

[Ron Party]

^ I'd order the parts and build that computer today if I knew what I was doing.

By for someone like me who has never before built a PC, but whose PC is almost as old as me, can the collective here point me to a ready made? All of my 15K albums are on a NAS. Not looking at all for external DAC. I am simply running ethernet to computer, then HDMI or USB to SSP.

 

[amirm]

What is the pc used for Ron?

 

[RayDunzl]

For something as complex as a modern computer, to be able to buy a few parts of chosen performance/capacity and throw one together in half an hour certainly has its appeal.

 

[Wayne]

it also then gives you "WASAPI" interface

Keeping it simple (I'm sure there are some exceptions), it is no longer necessary to be concerned with or to download WASAPI or ASIO drivers if one has Windows 10 Creator's edition?

Thanks, Vincent & Amir

 

[Blumlein 88]

Keeping it simple (I'm sure there are some exceptions), it is no longer necessary to be concerned with or to download WASAPI or ASIO drivers if one has Windows 10 Creator's edition?

Thanks, Vincent & Amir

That should be the case.

 

[amirm]

Keeping it simple (I'm sure there are some exceptions), it is no longer necessary to be concerned with or to download WASAPI or ASIO drivers if one has Windows 10 Creator's edition?

Thanks, Vincent & Amir

Correct go WASAPI. for ASIO you still need drivers. Fortunately WASAPI is broadly supported so not an issue for most of us.

 

[Sal1950]

^ I'd order the parts and build that computer today if I knew what I was doing.

By for someone like me who has never before built a PC, but whose PC is almost as old as me, can the collective here point me to a ready made? All of my 15K albums are on a NAS. Not looking at all for external DAC. I am simply running ethernet to computer, then HDMI or USB to SSP.

Grab something like this, a LOT of box for the money. $399
HP Z420 Workstation - Intel Xeon Six Core Second Gen E5-1650v2 3.5GHz
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=9SIA5YV5Z71593
bump the included memory up to what you think you need and maybe add a SSD in the appropriate size.