Confused by Roon and high-end streamers

[ijohn]

I'm confused by Roon. Assuming I'm correct in that it's primary function/advantage is sending a bit-perfect signal to your DAC, I understand what it does. But I'm confused if it's needed or helpful in all instances. I currently run a Yamaha R-N800A and my digital source is a WiiM Pro input through digital coax, and my end game receiver/integrated (at this moment) is the R-N2000A. According to Yamaha, all digital sources are reclocked inside R-N receivers before going to the DAC. Does that eliminate, or at least mostly ameliorate, the benefit of Roon?

Also, if the Yamaha reclocking does NOT eliminate/ameliorate the benefit of Roon, does a high-end source like a HiFiRose RS130 solve that problem? If it does not, which of the two options is more effective?

Finally, assuming the Yamaha reclocking DOES render Roon moot, is there still a benefit to a high end source like the RS130? I was rather shocked when I read Stereophile's Recommended Components review of the WiiM Mini wherein they give it an A rating as a Network Bridge. I'm currently sending Apple Music lossless into a WiiM Pro via Chromecast and running that into my receiver via digital coax. I'd be thrilled to learn that I don't stand to gain much, or anything, by using a vastly more expensive streamer.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Vincent Kars]

Assuming I'm correct in that it's primary function/advantage is sending a bit-perfect signal to your DAC

No, many other media players can do this. Infact any media player supporting WASAPI/Exclusive will do.
Roon is about an abundance of meta data.

According to Yamaha, all digital sources are reclocked inside R-N

Really? Might it be they referring to oversampling (almost any DAC does) or asynchronous sample rate conversion?

If you use the WiiM as a digital transport, delivering the same bits to your DAC as e.g. a RS130, no reason to assume a more expensive tramsport sound better. In the past one might argue about input jitter. Any modern DAC makes short work of that.

 

[Timcognito]

Roon is the wikipedia of music in a magazine like format. If one doesn't need its DSP or care about liner notes, artists, production notes, related artists, other works by artists and sidemen, all articles on the internet about the recording or Roon radio that draws from all of that, music on your NAS and combines it with your listening choices to recommend new music, then it has no value. It was around a decade before all these new and inexpensive streamers and was available originally for $400 lifetime. Nothing even comes close to its music curation features, yet.

 

[fatoldgit]

Roon is the wikipedia of music in a magazine like format. If one doesn't need its DSP or care about liner notes, artists, production notes, related artists, other works by artists and sidemen, all articles on the internet about the recording or Roon radio that draws from all of that, music on your NAS and combines it with your listening choices to recommend new music, then it has no value. It was around a decade before all these new and inexpensive streamers and was available originally for $400 lifetime. Nothing even comes close to its music curation features, yet.

Or you could choose Roon if you want:

1- a fat and bloated application
2- that requires a internet connection else it wont work
3- that crashes all the time
4- that consumes an every increasing amount of memory as time goes on
5- that needs constant reboots
6- that loses its connection with its endpoints constantly
7- that pollutes its GUI with large images/text that use space and get in the way of your browsing experience
8- that invents metadata that doesn't exist
9- that doesn't enable any ability to control what extraneous images/text you may or may not want to see
10 - that has poor support that ignores obvious issues for years

I could go on but I wont.... the above is enough.

Peter

Peter

 

[Timcognito]

Or you could choose Roon if you want:

1- a fat and bloated application
2- that requires a internet connection else it wont work
3- that crashes all the time
4- that consumes an every increasing amount of memory as time goes on
5- that needs constant reboots
6- that loses its connection with its endpoints constantly
7- that pollutes its GUI with large images/text that use space and get in the way of your browsing experience
8- that invents metadata that doesn't exist
9- that doesn't enable any ability to control what extraneous images/text you may or may not want to see
10 - that has poor support that ignores obvious issues for years

I could go on but I wont.... the above is enough.

Peter

Peter

Yeah but what about it's music curation features and DSP, which only recently is in streamers. Mine runs smoothly on a old i7 laptop that also has SolidWorks CAD even when running together.

 

[fatoldgit]

Yeah but what about it's music curation features and DSP, which only recently is in streamers. Mine runs smoothly on a old i7 laptop that also has SolidWorks CAD even when running together.

It a bitter sweet application

Some people (say like you) get lucky while others have a sh*tshow on their hands (in terms of stability)..and stability even varies between people on similar platforms (and no it is almost never the network).

Sure curation is its strength but that aspect is an all or nothing proposition...I think for many people the lack of controlling what degree of "stuff" you see means it turns them off enough not to stick with Roon or people tolerate it.

Obviously many people use it but it has various issues (as noted above) that really can be a cause for concern.

If you go onto their forum and look at the bugs subsection its mind boogling the type of issues people have and how the same issues keep popping up month after month, year after year.

I tried Roon on various platforms, 5 or 6 times over the course of ~4 years and my experience got worse as time went on.

But glad it works out for you.

Peter

 

[Timcognito]

It a bitter sweet application

Some people (say like you) get lucky while others have a sh*tshow on their hands (in terms of stability)..and stability even varies between people on similar platforms (and no it is almost never the network).

Sure curation is its strength but that aspect is an all or nothing proposition...I think for many people the lack of controlling what degree of "stuff" you see means it turns them off enough not to stick with Roon or people tolerate it.

Obviously many people use it but it has various issues (as noted above) that really can be a cause for concern.

If you go onto there forum and look at the bugs subsection its mind boogling the type of issues peope have and how the same issues keep popping up month after month, year after year.

I tried Roon on various platforms, 5 or 6 times over the course of ~4 years and my experience got worse as time went on.

But glad it works out for you.

Peter

To be truthful, I only use it for DSP and occasionally to search for content on an obscure artist. I got it in 2016 for $500 lifetime. I have found other sources for music discovery and with all the content on my NAS and streaming I don't need it. I also have the BluOS since 2017 which is much simpler and faster as a remote if I know what I want to listen to in many rooms. Roon is the best curation tool still and for me paid for long ago. IMO, If someone wants expand their musical taste, really explore new and different music and DSP it would be worth the $20/mo.

 

[ijohn]

No, many other media players can do this. Infact any media player supporting WASAPI/Exclusive will do.
Roon is about an abundance of meta data.

Really? Might it be they referring to oversampling (almost any DAC does) or asynchronous sample rate conversion?

If you use the WiiM as a digital transport, delivering the same bits to your DAC as e.g. a RS130, no reason to assume a more expensive tramsport sound better. In the past one might argue about input jitter. Any modern DAC makes short work of that.

Thanks for the reply! Great news!

I don't know what WASAPI/Exclusive means. Now I have another rabbit hole to dive down. Ain't this hobby grand? LOL.

"Really? Might it be they referring to oversampling (almost any DAC does) or asynchronous sample rate conversion?"
Yeah, I was very pleasantly surprised about the Yamaha. I saw a video on CheapAudioMan about a cheap reclocker that got me researching that side of things. When I looked up the 800 on Yamaha's website, I saw this: "An ultra-precision dedicated crystal clock has been installed to improve signal accuracy of the USB DAC." But since the WiiM's LAN isn't an ouput, that doesn't help me. So I wrote Yamaha Support to inquire about the other digital inputs and received this reply: "the USB input, Optical/Coax inputs and the network inputs each have their own Crystal Clocks." Perhaps that's part of the secret sauce that has reviewers who don't usually care for Sabre DACs enjoying them in the Yamaha R-N series.

 

[amirm]

I don't know what WASAPI/Exclusive means.

Normal sound from applications go through the operating system and gets processed with sound from other applications. This can change the nature of the bits being sent to a DAC. In Windows, you can use a different interface by those names which bypasses this. Roon is one of many players that has this ability.

 

[ijohn]

Normal sound from applications go through the operating system and gets processed with sound from other applications. This can change the nature of the bits being sent to a DAC. In Windows, you can use a different interface by those names which bypasses this. Roon is one of many players that has this ability.

Thank you!