NAD C 399 HybridDigital DAC Amplifier

[Doodski]

If the amplifier was a problem it would be brilliant and annoying on the whole range, even the musical one (see Yamaha which is very cold and annoying for my taste) while Nad is musically exceptional and also vocally unless there are certain conditions.

I retailed NAD and Yamaha for some years and had the opportunity to be able to AB compare the various amps and receivers. Like about 40 amps in a sound room. There was no difference between a NAD, Yamaha, Luxman or most Harman Kardons. There was a HK that had a bit more bass but whether that was better was debatable. If you are not doing blind listening tests you are fooling yourself. Add in that Yamaha has the variable loudness control and is very good value for what the buyer receives. I think you are deluding yourself in labelling brands as having various sounds across all the models. Give blind testing a chance and it will be a eye opening experience.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Thank you guys.

Actually the problem / annoyance is only on some letters (as mentioned the S-T-Z-C) that are overpainted-dirty-sibilant.

If the amplifier was a problem it would be brilliant and annoying on the whole range, even the musical one (see Yamaha which is very cold and annoying for my taste) while Nad is musically exceptional and also vocally unless there are certain conditions.

I think it depends on the Dalis.

I borrowed my rotel 1592 from the shopkeeper today I try it in my acsa next to the Nad so with the direct confropnto we have a more important feedback to understand.

In case as a "hot" amp to try which brand do you suggest? (although I doubt it depends on him).

@spyne:
As a "hot" amp to prove what brand you suggest (although I doubt it's up to him) if I can find one for test, even though Nad I don't think it's that cold right? especially when compared to Rotel.

@ Harmonic THD:
What do you mean by Nad has no sound? is it a bad non-music product? sorry but I have problems with the translator but I would like to understand if it is an acceptable machine or to be avoided.

Thanks for the help.

Sorry for the confusion. The NAD is a decently engineered, modern amp, which does not add any sound to the original signal and is therefore not the cause of your problems.

As I stated above, your speakers in connection with your room cause the problem you perceive. Meanwhile I found this

dali opticon mk2

Hey hello These speakers looks interesting and well priced But i can't find measurements or something like that... dali said to me when i asked for distortion measurements '' The impedance curve I have send you is all I can give you. '' I prefer to see the measurements before speak about the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

and it very much confirms my above assumption.

Have a look at the frequency response in the linked documents, just look at the graphs. Your speakers are a bit on the bright side and have a wide dispersion pattern. This in a reflective room is most likely the cause. The link also gives some tips from the manufacturer: no toe-in (meaning not angled at you) and against the wall. However that might not entirely fix it, depending on your room and listening position.

Therefore, get a measurement mic ((UMIK1), unless you already have one and run a REW frequency sweep. Only that will give you clarity on how to fix it, unless you want to sell your speakers (which I would not recommend at this point, as it can be fixed with REW and Dirac).

 

[Alexx]

@Doodski:
Thanks for your explanation, I'm afraid you're right, we give too much importance to things of doubtful certainty ..... in fact between Rotel and Nad I didn't find all this difference (probably Nad a little more musical and colorful) but nothing more.

@Harmonic:
Great so it produces the sound he receives without altering it, positively this thing (I realized it with some CDs of Sade that he plays very hard compared to others) but I wasn't sure.
Thank you for the link.

I'm glad it's a decent amplifier (obviously related to the price).

For all the other places I can't do anything, I don't have the Bluos module (I'll take it later) but now it seems certain that the Dalis are the "problem" what I can do is to put them perpendicular to the wall as they suggest to do.

In case I will evaluate another speaker (Proac Sonus Faber Kef etc.).
Thanks for the useful information.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

@Doodski:
Thanks for your explanation, I'm afraid you're right, we give too much importance to things of doubtful certainty ..... in fact between Rotel and Nad I didn't find all this difference (probably Nad a little more musical and colorful) but nothing more.

@Harmonic:
Great so it produces the sound he receives without altering it, positively this thing (I realized it with some CDs of Sade that he plays very hard compared to others) but I wasn't sure.
Thank you for the link.

I'm glad it's a decent amplifier (obviously related to the price).

For all the other places I can't do anything, I don't have the Bluos module (I'll take it later) but now it seems certain that the Dalis are the "problem" what I can do is to put them perpendicular to the wall as they suggest to do.

In case I will evaluate another speaker (Proac Sonus Faber Kef etc.).
Thanks for the useful information.

Very good. Let us know if you need help with REW or Dirac. Dirac can fix your problem for sure.

Of course another, less bright sounding speaker with more narrow dispersion like some (not all) of the KEFs might help too. However your room and your listening position might even cause such problems with a different speaker. So before you buy a different speaker and loose money selling the Dalis, do a REW analysis in order to be absolutely certain. (REW is free, the UMIK costs ca 100EUR, much less than a new speaker).

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

For example if your room is very reflective, it might sound bright or if your listening position causes a cancellation of bass frequency, it might sound bright. But before you speculate for weeks, get a REW measurement. Just my recommendation, of course you decide.

 

[pogo]

Buy the BluOS/DL MDC2. The measuring mic is included!

 

[Alexx]

@ArmonicoTHD:
Thanks if I have problems with Diarc I'll tell you.
(I should buy the bluos module at the end of the month) for now I will organize myself with "REW" and then I will let you know.

@pogo:
Ok I want to see at what prices I find the module if they are not high I take him directly.

Today I tried Nad and Rotel side by side and I must say there is not much difference (on some CDs I was not able to understand it) while on some recorded with better quality on the Nad I felt more musicality and warmth even when the volume was turned up it did not become annoying as much as the Rotel (it seemed to scream!).

At this point we have been certain that the speakers are suppressed too high and dirty in the highs.

Without these other tests I will evaluate to sell them and buy a model possibly with 3 dedicated ways (not 2.5 like the Opticons).

Then I ask you for help on which models to evaluate ...
Thank you all for the great advice.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

@ArmonicoTHD:
Thanks if I have problems with Diarc I'll tell you.
(I should buy the bluos module at the end of the month) for now I will organize myself with "REW" and then I will let you know.

@pogo:
Ok I want to see at what prices I find the module if they are not high I take him directly.

Today I tried Nad and Rotel side by side and I must say there is not much difference (on some CDs I was not able to understand it) while on some recorded with better quality on the Nad I felt more musicality and warmth even when the volume was turned up it did not become annoying as much as the Rotel (it seemed to scream!).

At this point we have been certain that the speakers are suppressed too high and dirty in the highs.

Without these other tests I will evaluate to sell them and buy a model possibly with 3 dedicated ways (not 2.5 like the Opticons).

Then I ask you for help on which models to evaluate ...
Thank you all for the great advice.

This should get you a quick start with REW. There are also very good YouTubes.

UMIK-1/2 setup with REW

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

Here some of the a bit simplified background on the the brightness of the speakers.
Look the red marked areas of the red frequency response curve are ca. 2dB above the average sound level, marked clumsily by the thin blue line.
The blue thick line shows the frequency response at 30deg off-axis and you can see the clear rolloff starting at about 5kHz and then dropping strongly past 10kHz. Because of this Dali most likely recommended to listen with no toe-in so you hear firstly the 30deg frequency response. However the on-axis brighter sound will come to your ears as well as it is reflected by the walls of your room, especially if the room is without sound treatment.
The speaker with this brightness and wide dispersion (as mentioned) by Dali is not ideal for reflective rooms. However you can correct it somewhat by for example defining a HouseCurve in REW/Dirac with a slope of approximately -0.5 to -1dB/octave downward slope

 

[panther]

Received my C399 today. Will get it setup tomorrow and do some A/B listening between my Elac Carina and Dali Menuets. I expect others though have you on the right track.

 

[Alexx]

@HarmonicTHD: Thank you very much you are very kind.

The graph is also very useful, as I organize myself I will let you know, I hope it will not be very difficult.

@ Panther: Great, I'm glad you got the 399, let us know how you like it and which speakers you like.
See you soon and have a good day.

 

[panther]

Some very basic things so far as I got a little time to setup the amp and get the module installed. I believe there is more power with the C399 vs my lyngdorf 1120, I definitely don't seem to have to turn the volume up as much to get loud. Both sound great to me with either speaker setup (Carina FS or Dali Menuets), but I haven't had critical listening time yet.

From a usability standpoint, so far I like the Lyngdorf much more over the BluOS environment from the standpoint of accessing the amp itself remotely. I don't believe there is a way to turn the C399 off from the BluOS app. I liked turning the 1120 on remotely and getting music setup and playing before I got to the room. Not an end of the world issue though. The Lyngdorf also to me had a lot more options to tweak if you wanted to, maybe I will find that as I go with the BluOS. I also find I miss the voicings that Lyngdorf had but again a small thing. Also the C399 does not want to turn on or off with our Apple TV remote which turned on our whole system (TV, Apple TV, Lyngdorf 1120) before. It does change volume properly though.

I believe I also misunderstood the BluOS module from a streaming standpoint. I thought I would have siri (or google/alexa) voice control directly to the unit but I guess it's still through my tablet or phone being used. Not a huge issue but I was hoping to be phone free a bit when using it. I'm basically telling it to play Mickey Mouse clubhouse songs for the kids or Spotify kids songs so I am not really unhappy, I just thought it worked differently. I do like having Radio Paradise directly in the BluOS app. I believe this is bypassing using my phone (and spotify connect) at least I hope so mostly just to save some battery life.

Probably more then anything I kind of wish Lyngdorf had something current between the 1120 and the 3400 still, but now I can have 2 setups in the house that I enjoy and have plenty of power for each speaker system.

 

[symphara]

Probably more then anything I kind of wish Lyngdorf had something current between the 1120 and the 3400 still, but now I can have 2 setups in the house that I enjoy and have plenty of power for each speaker system.

You can add a power amp to the 1120, including the Lyngdorf's own, which will put the price in that region. The only downside is losing the subwoofer integration.

I found out that I don't actually need the subwoofer integration, so for me this is a viable upgrade path.

 

[ENG]

Lyngdorf 1120 have 60W, 8 Ohm and Sinad 69, cost in Denmark 16.000 DKK/ca. 2.300 USD. Beautiful and expensive.

NAD C399 have 180W, 8 Ohm and Sinad 94, cost in Denmark (with Bluos module) 20.000 DKK/ca. 2.900 USD.
I have that as you get more for your money.

 

[Alexx]

@Pantera:
Bene, sono contento che ti trovi abbastanza bene, io ancora non uso la parte "intelligente", ho dato più importanza al suono e mi piace molto.

L'ho anche confrontato con il rotel 1592 MKII la differenza è pochissima tra i due amplificatori.... Ho preferito nad perchè è leggermente più caldo come suono in alcune tracce ed ha un suono più rilassante (costa anche 500 euro in meno Nad ).

Per curiosità, (credo che tutti i modelli lo facciano) anche il tuo quando accendi e spegni senti un piccolo "Click" sugli altoparlanti? deve avere un po' di volume per sentirlo, se è troppo basso difficilmente si sente, dicono che è normale (anche Nad stessa) è solo una curiosità.

@ING: Da alcuni test sembra che il 399 abbia anche poco più di 200 watt per canale, un utente aveva inserito il collegamento per questo test.
Mille grazie.

 

[ENG]

@Pantera:
Bene, sono contento che ti trovi abbastanza bene, io ancora non uso la parte "intelligente", ho dato più importanza al suono e mi piace molto.

L'ho anche confrontato con il rotel 1592 MKII la differenza è pochissima tra i due amplificatori.... Ho preferito nad perchè è leggermente più caldo come suono in alcune tracce ed ha un suono più rilassante (costa anche 500 euro in meno Nad ).

Per curiosità, (credo che tutti i modelli lo facciano) anche il tuo quando accendi e spegni senti un piccolo "Click" sugli altoparlanti? deve avere un po' di volume per sentirlo, se è troppo basso difficilmente si sente, dicono che è normale (anche Nad stessa) è solo una curiosità.

@ING: Da alcuni test sembra che il 399 abbia anche poco più di 200 watt per canale, un utente aveva inserito il collegamento per questo test.
Mille grazie.

Alexx you go on not writing in English. Stop that!

 

[Alexx]

@Ing: Try to be patient.

But always in Italian ???

I load the english text with google translate! I don't understand why he sometimes puts it in Italian.

You do well to point this out, thank you, but more than copying and pasting the translated text in English and sending it, I don't know what else to do, everything is normal to me.

Is it in Italian now too?
A thousand thanks.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

@Ing: Try to be patient.

But always in Italian ???

I load the english text with google translate! I don't understand why he sometimes puts it in Italian.

You do well to point this out, thank you, but more than copying and pasting the translated text in English and sending it, I don't know what else to do, everything is normal to me.

Is it in Italian now too?
A thousand thanks.

It’s in English now. Previous one was in Italian.

 

[panther]

So maybe I’m just dumb but I get no audio from my TV to the c399 over HDMI. It worked last night. Today I did some airplay and then turned the tv on and switched the C399 over to earc. Nothing. I have a LG C1 tv using the same cable that worked with the lyngdorf 1120. As soon as I plug in the 1120 I Get audio.
Edit: I guess the BluOS app didn’t actually update the C399 to the latest firmware even though it said it had. The amp itself said it wasn’t up to date. I updated directly from the amp and now audio works. Also my Apple TV remote powers on the amp at the same time as the TV which is nice for my better half.

 

[Alexx]

@ Pantther: Good news.
In fact I also believed that the newer ones arrived already updated but mine is not (it should also have a greater control of the subwoofer without bluos module).

Other than HDMI control, has anything changed in the amplifier software itself?

How could I update without Bluso Wi-Fi module (likely with Ethernet cable).

Just out of curiosity if you can check if yours also "click" on the speakers when you turn them on and off.
Thank you in advance.

PS: I hope it's in English !!!

 

[panther]

You can add a power amp to the 1120, including the Lyngdorf's own, which will put the price in that region. The only downside is losing the subwoofer integration.

I found out that I don't actually need the subwoofer integration, so for me this is a viable upgrade path.

Yeah I thought about adding just a power amp but I decided to just have the C399 for one speaker setup and the 1120 will fit nicely upstairs with speakers I know it works well with in the Dali Menuets.

 

[panther]

@ Pantther: Good news.
In fact I also believed that the newer ones arrived already updated but mine is not (it should also have a greater control of the subwoofer without bluos module).

Other than HDMI control, has anything changed in the amplifier software itself?

How could I update without Bluso Wi-Fi module (likely with Ethernet cable).

Just out of curiosity if you can check if yours also "click" on the speakers when you turn them on and off.
Thank you in advance.

PS: I hope it's in English !!!

I did experience the click noise at first. Since the update I do not hear anything. I think you would need to run ethernet cable to it, I didn't see a file to download on the NAD page at this time.