My post on Reddit' r/headphones Blew up like a storm

[john5220]

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/dukagf

 

[cjfrbw]

NwAvGuy will walk the plank with Amir! Down with the objectivists! Commercial mythology MUST survive!

 

[amirm]

Wow, you sure created a storm there. Took me a while to read it. You owe me 10% of your likes at least!

 

[raif71]

Yeah, I'm reading it too....

 

[sonci]

Hey, what's the problem with 65 years old guys?

 

[fuzzyqoute]

I was reading that, that thread is a dumpster fire of people arguing over who right or wrong. Stopped reading it when they think all high end headphones are just snake oil and one user there thinks he can make his MH755 sound like $1000 killers with EQ only. lol

 

[thomasjast]

I put in my two cents. ASR is Top 10 site on the Internet and Reddit is the asshole of the Internet. Reddit is FaceBook for smartasses and can ruin any hobby in a hurry.

 

[fuzzyqoute]

I put in my two cents. ASR is Top 10 site on the Internet and Reddit is the asshole of the Internet. Reddit is FaceBook for smartasses and can ruin any hobby in a hurry.

Yup that sub seems to take glee on bashing anyone they disagree with, Since apparently there the HD800 is now snake oil when 2.5 years ago it was the most loved thing there outside of the HD6XX and other brands.

 

[flipflop]

Hey, what's the problem with 65 years old guys?

Presbycusis.

 

[Erik]

I was reading that, that thread is a dumpster fire of people arguing over who right or wrong. Stopped reading it when they think all high end headphones are just snake oil and one user there thinks he can make his MH755 sound like $1000 killers with EQ only. lol

Huh? MH755 do sound better than most $1000 earphones, even without any EQ.
Funnily enough, the post you are referring to, does also perfectly explain why you fall into denial after reading it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/dukagf/_/f77lpp6

 

[cookiefactory]

MH755 sound good for what they are, particularly for the price. If audio performance could be scored in discrete criteria they’d be a solid 6.5 - 7.0 across the board.

 

[bigjacko]

Huh? MH755 do sound better than most $1000 earphones, even without any EQ.
Funnily enough, the post you are referring to, does also perfectly explain why you fall into denial after reading it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/dukagf/_/f77lpp6

https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/61467227
This website is in Chinese.
Very interesting point, how good do you think it can be? On a Chinese website there is a user said sony mh750/mh755 with convolver dsp can rival 10000 CNY (around 1427 USD). The user said because linear distortion can be dsp corrected and non linear distortion is low on those ear phones, that is why those ear phones can rival more expansive headphones. What is your take on this?

 

[cookiefactory]

https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/61467227
This website is in Chinese.
Very interesting point, how good do you think it can be? On a Chinese website there is a user said sony mh750/mh755 with convolver dsp can rival 10000 CNY (around 1427 USD). The user said because linear distortion can be dsp corrected and non linear distortion is low on those ear phones, that is why those ear phones can rival more expansive headphones. What is your take on this?

I own a pair. I get it, everyone loves to root for the underdog and giant killers are always a great storyline. The MH755 are very competent but the hype is becoming a caricature of itself. Back when the Koss KSC-75 was the FOTM people were making similar, wild claims. Just upgrade the cable, apply the tape mod, etc and you got yourself a Senn HD650 killer!

 

[Erik]

MH755 sound good for what they are, particularly for the price. If audio performance could be scored in discrete criteria they’d be a solid 6.5 - 7.0 across the board.

Amazing result for a product that costs $5, considering that the most popular "objectivist" and "audiophile" earphones got significantly lower "audio performance" scores.

https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/61467227
This website is in Chinese.
Very interesting point, how good do you think it can be? On a Chinese website there is a user said sony mh750/mh755 with convolver dsp can rival 10000 CNY (around 1427 USD). The user said because linear distortion can be dsp corrected and non linear distortion is low on those ear phones, that is why those ear phones can rival more expansive headphones. What is your take on this?

MH755 are one of the best earphones on the market, regardless of the price. They have smooth frequency response and sound natural without any equalization. Using DSP you can make almost any earphones sound very good and rival 10000 CNY products. Price-related claims make no sense anyway, because overall the correlation between earphones' price and sound quality is close to zero.
http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2017/02/twirt-337-predicting-headphone-sound_17.html
Non-linear distortion is not a significant factor in subjective sound quality evaluations as long as there is nothing abnormal with it.
https://www.listeninc.com/the-corre...bility-and-listener-preference-in-headphones/

 

[cookiefactory]

Amazing result for a product that costs $5, considering that the most popular "objectivist" and "audiophile" earphones got significantly lower "audio performance" scores.

View attachment 38640View attachment 38641View attachment 38643


MH755 are one of the best earphones on the market, regardless of the price. They have smooth frequency response and sound natural without any equalization. Using DSP you can make almost any earphones sound very good and rival 10000 CNY products. Price-related claims make no sense anyway, because overall the correlation between earphones' price and sound quality is close to zero.
http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2017/02/twirt-337-predicting-headphone-sound_17.html
Non-linear distortion is not a significant factor in subjective sound quality evaluations as long as there is nothing abnormal with it.
https://www.listeninc.com/the-corre...bility-and-listener-preference-in-headphones/

What exactly is an "audio performance" score though? The Harman target is simply an empirical preference aggregation, and more useful as a design starting point rather than the definition of "best". Really using it as the latter is a misapplication of the data.

 

[JJB70]

I think there is abundant evidence that price isn't much of an indicator of SQ in audio, not just for headphones. Especially as you get into boutique suppliers, whilst some are excellent and run by highly competent and dedicated individuals others are selling half baked (at best) and shoddily made junk but selling the stuff for $$$$$$$$$'s. And it's not unusual for companies that do know what they're doing and who can design excellent gear and sell it at a reasonable price to have audiophile lines designed to press the right audiophile buttons to generate premium sales.

On headphones I think it's true that you don't have to spend much to get excellent SQ and that some statement models just aren't very good.

 

[fuzzyqoute]

What exactly is an "audio performance" score though? The Harman target is simply an empirical preference aggregation, and more useful as a design starting point rather than the definition of "best". Really using it as the latter is a misapplication of the data.

Also its very dishonest to assume FR tunings are just fancy EQ's. He totally ignores that BA, Planar, electrostatic have there own timbre and sound signature, better attack & decay also detail performance. Gotta be the dumber reasons why TOTL are not worth the money.

 

[pozz]

Also its very dishonest to assume FR tunings are just fancy EQ's. He totally ignores that BA, Planar, electrostatic have there own timbre and sound signature, better attack & decay also detail performance. Gotta be the dumber reasons why TOTL are not worth the money.

The most you could say is that Harman research demonstrates that the largest contributing factor to headphone preference is to do with FR differences, but has not yet determined other design criteria apart from a lack of unwanted resonance. With speakers there is a well-known list, on the other hand.

The uniqueness of any signature is really evident only through an analyzer. Which is to say that if you took 50 headphones of different types you could reliably sort them using a test rig, but not through blind listening.

 

[fuzzyqoute]

The most you could say is that Harman research demonstrates that the largest contributing factor to headphone preference is to do with FR differences, but has not yet determined other design criteria apart from a lack of unwanted resonance. With speakers there is a well-known list, on the other hand.

The uniqueness of any signature is really evident only through an analyzer. Which is to say that if you took 50 headphones of different types you could reliably sort them using a test rig, but not through blind listening.

Harman was about what the most enjoyable signature is from research/testing. What rubs me wrong is people twisting how it a new version of netural or how companies are dumb for having house sounds. The VR blind tester was to avoid people guessing headphones by touch/feeling them, Hence why it was hard when planar/Estat were used.

With the ER2SE out you could do a real blind test to all ER* versions since they use the same shell/tips and stuff.

 

[Erik]

What exactly is an "audio performance" score though? The Harman target is simply an empirical preference aggregation, and more useful as a design starting point rather than the definition of "best". Really using it as the latter is a misapplication of the data.

Yes, what exactly is the "audio performance" score you have mentioned? What data did you use to calculate it? We know how the Harman model works, and we know that there is a pretty high correlation between its prediction score and subjective evaluations. Mind you, no one has said that the Harman target is the definition of "best". But it's much closer to that than an arbitrary "audio performance" score given by a biased person.

Also its very dishonest to assume FR tunings are just fancy EQ's. He totally ignores that BA, Planar, electrostatic have there own timbre and sound signature, better attack & decay also detail performance. Gotta be the dumber reasons why TOTL are not worth the money.

Attack and decay? But both these characteristics are tied to the frequency response. The rise time is defined by the high frequency limit, and the decay time is dependent on the resonances in the frequency response.
Talking about non-linear distortion, I already mentioned that it's not a significant factor in subjective sound quality evaluations as long as there is nothing abnormal with it. Also, there is no reason to assume that the MH755 have worse non-linear distortion characteristics than "TOTL" earphones, unless you can prove otherwise.