Multichannel System - Brainstorming

[jhenderson0107]

Seems another good strategy...
Sorry for the ignorant question, what is MSO? And it's easy to use?
The idea of DLBC is there e cause it will take all on this own.. And it's very easy procedure

Multi-sub optimizer
It's easy to use, but time consuming. It requires multiple measurements for each sub at each listening position, calculating correction filters for each sub which are loaded into the miniDSP.

 

[pablitho]

Yes, that could work. Obviously you’ll have some constraints on placement.

A bit. You’ll still need that 16 channel audio interface though. And you’ll probably need a special channel config for Dirac Live.

What about the rme m-16 ad, or something similar?
In that case, the rme should be connected with the htpc how?
Regarding Dirac DLBC is designed for multisub purpose, so I think the channel configuration will not be so hard..

 

[pablitho]

Multi-sub optimizer
It's easy to use, but time consuming. It requires multiple measurements for each sub at each listening position, calculating correction filters for each sub which are loaded into the miniDSP.

This is what I really don't need, I wish to have something semi automatic that could measure and correct.
That's why I was looking at Dirac

 

[voodooless]

What about the rme m-16 ad, or something similar?

For € 3000+, just get an AVR… and the AD, is analog to digital, you’ll need the DA version. It needs ADAT or MADI input, so you’ll need another box or card to give you that. There are plenty of cheaper 16+ channel output interfaces, either directly or with ADAT extension.

Regarding Dirac DLBC is designed for multisub purpose, so I think the channel configuration will not be so hard..

There probably isn’t a 8.8 configuration by default. I think you can add them via some xml file hacking. Dirac support can probably help.

 

[pablitho]

There are plenty of cheaper 16+ channel output interfaces, either directly or with ADAT extension.

Can you show me some of those?

Which avr do you suggest for this kind of application?
Also I think we must be aware of output voltage of the avr... In order to supply the necessary voltage to the pro amplifiers... This is a matter where I'll become really confused

 

[voodooless]

Can you show me some of those?

Motu 16A would probably work.

Which avr do you suggest for this kind of application?

I already mentioned X4800h. In about a year you can probably get Dirac ART as well, no indication it will come to the PC version yet as far as I know. It will probably have more impact on sound than a few more subs.

Also I think we must be aware of output voltage of the avr... In order to supply the necessary voltage to the pro amplifiers... This is a matter where I'll become really confused

That’s something you’ll need to account for when buying the amps.

 

[ppataki]

Instead of using 8 separate subs you could build a DBA system (just google 'double bass array') using those 8 subs
That way you will only need 2 channels to manage the full array
And you can go up to an unlimited number of subs, literally
You will get a wave plain in your room providing the smoothest bass response ever possible AFAIK

 

[pablitho]

That’s something you’ll need to account for when buying the amps.

You're talking about input sensitivity?

I already mentioned X4800h. In about a year you can probably get Dirac ART as well, no indication it will come to the PC version yet as far as I know. It will probably have more impact on sound than a few more subs.

Agree, but you are not considering the headrythat 6 sub's add to the system..

 

[pablitho]

Motu 16A would probably work.

In that case the motu will be connected to. My htpc through thunderbolt... After the motu signal then, going directly to the amplifiers?

So in a solution like this, what will be the main challenge?

 

[ppataki]

The main challenge will be that you will have no height channels (Atmos) since a PC will not be able to decode those as I mentioned a few times already
You will have 8 channels only, the rest of the channels you can use to map the already existing channels to (for example to duplicate the sub channel or the side channels, etc)
But I am happy to stand corrected

 

[pablitho]

The main challenge will be that you will have no height channels (Atmos) since a PC will not be able to decode those as I mentioned a few times already
You will have 8 channels only, the rest of the channels you can use to map the already existing channels to (for example to duplicate the sub channel or the side channels, etc)
But I am happy to stand corrected

As I sad, let's forget about atmos, also because Italian multichannel movie tracks in atmos are very rare
With motu for a "normal" 7.6 system what will be the hardest challenge?

 

[phoenixdogfan]

You are referring to a way to play atmos tracks on an htpc?

Here is the "problem" how can DLBC work at his best if you are managing all of them in a single output?
DLBC Must work with each single sub to catch the best performance?

It sounds to me like if you want to create an Atmos set up with 8 subs, you would need at a minium a 5.8.2 setup, and preferably a 5.8.4 or a 7.8.4 layout. That's, 15, 17, or 19 discrete channels. And as Pablitho alludes, you would want each sub on a separate channel to fully take advantage of DLBC's capabilites.

The obvious problem (beyone finding a software player of Atmos on a PC or Mac--there aren't any I know of, btw) is the limitation of the number of channels on USB Dacs to 8 channels. This necessitates aggregating two or more DACS, which creates problems of how to get everything on the same clock. They only solution I'm am aware of (and it's theoretical) is some kind of USB to Spdif bridge with something like 16 channels. Problem is the DM7 is usb input only. Something like the Octo Dac 8 will accept both USB and AES/EBU, so it could work if you had two of them and a bridge component--but I don;t know of the bridge like. say, the miniDSP Udio-8, which performs this function, but only up to 8 channels.

U-DIO8

The miniDSP U-DIO8 is a pocket size USB Asynchronous interface with support for up to 8 channels of audio recording and 8 channels of playback. Inputs and outputs are digital (AES/EBU or SPDIF) and provided on a standard TASCAM pinout DB-25 to XLR (AES_EBU version) or DB25 to RCA (SPDIF version)

www.minidsp.com

So, in essence, there are, afik, two choke points preventing the usage of a PC as the center of a multichannel ATMOS/DTS-X/Auro 3D system.

1. There really is no player that works like JRiver MC 30 to decode these objects based codecs. The PC based players are limited, AFIK, to 7.1 legacy codecs--they won't decode Atmos/Auro/DTS-X. I know MACS will do this, but only for Apple programming, so that really doesn't count.

2. Even if you could decode it, there are no (with the exception of the10 channel Moto Lite M5) DACS which go beyond 8 channels, necessitating some way of aggregating the DACS to play all under one clock and sync with the video output via the PC's HDMI, but there appears to be no such consunmer device--there may be something from the pro audio world, but I don't know of it or how to use it. If someone does, please chime in.

Theoretically, both are easily resolvable, just have PC's and player programs like JRiver that can decode ATMOS, and pass the audio in a LPCM stream to a 12-16 channel DAC via USB. But anytime you get the copyright trolls involved, they're gonna figure how to put obstacles in eveyone's way. Eventually someone will discover that there is more money to be made in smaller ATMOS sytems that don't involve building a man cave. Such systems could merely entail adding four ceiling speakers to an existing 5.1 channel system living room system. When that happens someone will then realize that the cheapest way to do that is to make a small mini PC the replacement for the ginormous AV receiver, because the way to make the most money off ATMOS is to just market that to a far larger market than white upper income males living in 5000+ SF suburban homes with man caves and $70k AV receiver based systems.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

2. Even if you could decode it, there are no (with the exception of the10 channel Moto Lite M5) DACS which go beyond 8 channels, necessitating some way of aggregating the DACS to play all under one clock and sync with the video output via the PC's HDMI, but there appears to be no such consunmer device--there may be something from the pro audio world, but I don't know of it or how to use it. If someone does, please chime in.

I am running 16 channels from JRiver through a Merging Hapi II.

 

[voodooless]

The obvious problem (beyone finding a software player of Atmos on a PC or Mac--there aren't any I know of, btw) is the limitation of the number of channels on USB Dacs to 8 channels.

There is no such limitation technically. Plenty of interfaces have more than 8 channels, some use USB. The main problem is finding one that does more than 8 analog outputs. There aren’t that many around. Usually you’ll get an 8 channel card and add another 8 channels via MADI or ADAT. Here is a 60 channel USB interface:

RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions - RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions

RME Audio Professional Live, Studio, Recording and Broadcast Solutions. Unrivalled Quality, Performance & Stability MADI Interfaces, Converters & Preamps.

rme-audio.de

 

[pablitho]

It sounds to me like if you want to create an Atmos set up with 8 subs, you would need at a minium a 5.8.2 setup, and preferably a 5.8.4 or a 7.8.4 layout. That's, 15, 17, or 19 discrete channels. And as Pablitho alludes, you would want each sub on a separate channel to fully take advantage of DLBC's capabilites

It's all correct but let's think to a system without atmos to eliminate one big variable from the problem.. With an interface like rme
https://www.rme-audio.de/m-32-m-16-da.html it could be possible to. Manage a system with6/8 subs and DLBC?

The solution that jhenderson0107.33049 proposed with MSO could be interesting and then you can manage it with a 8 channel DAC..

Theoretically, both are easily resolvable, just have PC's and player programs like JRiver that can decode ATMOS, and pass the audio in a LPCM stream to a 12-16 channel DAC via USB.

What are you saying here, WITHOUT ATMOS it's doable?

 

[pablitho]

I am running 16 channels from JRiver through a Merging Hapi II.

How? Could you please explain your setup?

 

[3ll3d00d]

Even if you could decode it, there are no (with the exception of the10 channel Moto Lite M5) DACS which go beyond 8 channels,

Motu make multiple such devices, ferrofish is another option, expanding via adat is also easily done. Channel count really isn't a practical problem here.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I am running 16 channels from JRiver through a Merging Hapi II.

Yes, and it comes with a price of the base unit of $2699 which stands in stark contrast to the price of the UDIO-8 or $262. If all you wanted to do was find a simple, economical device to aggregate two multi-channel DACS as an alternative to buying an expensive AV receiver, this would not be the answer. I understand it provides more features than simply providing distribution and reclocking of a 16 channel LPCM USB audio stream, but in most cases, a home user would have no need of them.

BTW: It might be useful if someone could explain exactly how to use ADAT to add channels. Would be great if someone explained that to us like we were five years old. You know, just walk everyone through it, including example of all the hardware bits needed, any software settings, In other words, how to create the interface between your PC, that style of pro interface, and commercial audio equipment like DACS which have USB, AES/EBU, Toslink, and Spdif inputs almost exclusively.

 

[pablitho]

Motu make multiple such devices, ferrofish is another option, expanding via adat is also easily done. Channel count really isn't a practical problem here.

And in that case the HTPC will be connected through usb to this DAC?

What are the difficulties of this?
Driver configuration in Windows?

 

[JamesYeomans]

If Genelec SAMs, or other active speakers with an AES/EBU input are an option for you, then I find this works well between a Windows PC and the Genelecs SAMs: https://rme-audio.com/hdspe-aes.html
It's got 16 AES/EBU outputs, but I've only used 6 of them, so can't comment on the >8 channel playback via Windows situation.