Multichannel System - Brainstorming

[pablitho]

Hi,
Since some months i'm following the forum and i feel this is the right place where ask and find help, at least the passion for music and good sound is the thing that bring us together, i decide to start this thread.

Let's start to say that i have very strong passion for movies, so the focus will be in a multichannel system, but i also love to listen music, best of both worlds will be appreciated!
I'm thinking to "imagine" and then try to make it real the best multichannel system that i can afford, easy to setup.
The idea is to have a system that will use Dirac DLBC to control and correct a multi-sub setup (the idea is utilize at least 6 closed enclosure sub's with 18" pro speaker like the B&C TBX100 in order to have a clean, fast and tight bass with headroom to go under the 20 Hz).

So as i read in various thread, the best way to make DLBC work is to give it the opportunity to control the single sub, the system might require a DAC with more of 8 channels (in a 7.6 system).
The amplifier's will be class D professional one, like powersoft.

Up on the the chain will sit an HTPC that will run JRiver (?), MadVR and DLBC.

The question's are many and will be nice to share some idea's, have a discussion in order to understand what could be the best solution:

1) The HTPC must have a soundcard capable to send at least 16 channels into the DAC?
2) The soundcard driver management into Windows will be a mess?
3) With Dirac Live and DLBC i don't need a AVR for crossing over the LFE channel? Is Dirac taking care of all? Even the surrounds ?
4) There is an alternative easy to use, instead of DBLC to setup a system like that?
5) Which DAC will be the best for a system like in the description? What i should check to match best the DAC with amplifier's ? (input sensivity?)
6) I read about DANTE protocol, i'm open also to a solution that will use it, any suggestion?

Thank you to all that wants to partecipate at this kind sorta of brainstorming, the purpose is to discuss, learn and apply.

And if my english isn't perfect......be patient!

 

[Puddingbuks]

Are you sure you want all this? Seems like a lot of trouble to get into, building, configuring, updating, lots of space.

 

[pablitho]

Are you sure you want all this? Seems like a lot of trouble to get into, building, configuring, updating, lots of space.

No problem for the space, the room will be dedicated!
This is the purpose of the thread, trying to understand what to expect from something like that.

 

[ppataki]

I agree that all the above would be an extreme hassle....

If you want to use a PC as your source you will be limited to 8 channels (in any configuration e.g. 7.1, 6.2, 4.4, 5.3, etc.... except for Atmos ceiling channels) provided that you wish to minimize the hassle
It is possible to go beyond that and include Atmos channels too, somebody published that here on ASR (you can search for it) but it is really not for the faint-hearted

So provided that you are fine with 8 channels max, here is my recommendation:

- get a HTPC (preferably one that has enough GPU power to passthrough 4K HDR with HDR to HDR tone mapping)
- get Jriver 31 to perform the above + to have SOTA DSP capabilities
- get a Topping DM7 DAC
- get whatever amps you like (nCore, Purifi or even the Topping PA5 II or PA7 series or Aiyima A07 Max, etc. etc.)
- get whatever speakers you like
- get whatever sub(s) you like

Then you can configure Jriver to handle the video + you can use Dirac Live Bass Control within Jriver's DSP engine to optimize your speakers and your subs accordingly
This is relatively simple and you will have a system that will potentially beat the crap out of most AVR-based stuff that you can buy for whatever money (and I am not exaggerating here)

 

[pablitho]

It is possible to go beyond that and include Atmos channels too, somebody published that here on ASR (you can search for it) but it is really not for the faint-hearted

You are referring to a way to play atmos tracks on an htpc?

Then you can configure Jriver to handle the video + you can use Dirac Live Bass Control with its DSP engine to optimize your speakers and your subs accordingly

Here is the "problem" how can DLBC work at his best if you are managing all of them in a single output?
DLBC Must work with each single sub to catch the best performance?

 

[ppataki]

You are referring to a way to play atmos tracks on an htpc?

To play Atmos soundtracks where the Atmos channels are actually output using your physical Atmos speakers (=ceiling speakers)

Here is the "problem" how can DLBC work at his best if you are managing all of them in a single output?
DLBC Must work with each single sub to catch the best performance?

If you wire your subs so that each will have its own dedicated channel (out of those 8 that I mentioned above) then DLBC will not optimize them as a single sub but will 'see' them one by one

 

[pablitho]

If you wire your subs so that each will have its own dedicated channel (out of those 8 that I mentioned above) then DLBC will not optimize them as a single sub but will 'see' them one by one

Agree with you, but to wire it like that you need a multichannel dac with more than 8 outputs..

To play Atmos soundtracks where the Atmos channels are actually output using your physical Atmos speakers (=ceiling speakers)

Any suggestion of the keyword to use in order to search this topic in the forum?

 

[ppataki]

Agree with you, but to wire it like that you need a multichannel dac with more than 8 outputs..

No you don't necessarily need more than 8 channels
Hence I said that virtually any speaker layout is possible up to 8 channels (=you can have multiple subs)

Any suggestion of the keyword to use in order to search this topic in the forum?

Try googling 'ASR Dolby Atmos with HTPC' or similar

 

[pablitho]

No you don't necessarily need more than 8 channels
Hence I said that virtually any speaker layout is possible up to 8 channels (=you can have multiple subs)

Ok but if you want to do a 7.6 system.... (8 sub's) to work with DLBC you are forced to go into a multichannel dac with at least 16 channels..

 

[ppataki]

Ok but if you want to do a 7.6 system.... (8 sub's) to work with DLBC you are forced to go into a multichannel dac with at least 16 channels..

Of course, in that case you will need more than 8 channels
And that's where hell will break loose

 

[pablitho]

Of course, in that case you will need more than 8 channels
And that's where hell will break loose

What do you mean?

 

[ppataki]

I am just referring to the exponential increase in the complexity of the solution

 

[DVDdoug]

The HTPC must have a soundcard capable to send at least 16 channels into the DAC?

The soundcard is a DAC. (A regular soundcard also has an ADC for recording).

You might find a 16-channel "pro" DAC but I don't what's involved in configuring it for surround sound. A regular multi-channel soundcard will be properly "mapped" through the software & drivers.

Or if you use HDM into an AVR (or surround processor) that has the DAC(s).

but i also love to listen music, best of both worlds will be appreciated!

A "perfect" surround system will also be perfect for stereo. Personally, I like to use one of the "Hall" or "Theater" on my AVR (5.1 system) to get some rear-channel reverb for the "feel" of a larger music hall. But that's heriey to hi-fi purists...

With Dirac Live and DLBC i don't need a AVR for crossing over the LFE channel? Is Dirac taking care of all? Even the surrounds ?

I don't know but and AVR gives you the option of using the subwoofer ONLY for the LFE, sending the regular bass to the other channels (when you have full-range speakers) OR using the crossover and routing all of the bass to the sub.

 

[voodooless]

Just get yourself a x4800h and pair up the subs. That should be more than enough and saves you loads of trouble.

 

[pablitho]

You might find a 16-channel "pro" DAC but I don't what's involved in configuring it for surround sound

What is the hardest part of this?
I mean with an htpc and a 16channel pro dac.. What is the thing to be aware of?

Just get yourself a x4800h and pair up the subs. That should be more than enough and saves you loads of trouble.

The DAC solution, i suppose it's better from a quality point of view, and at least I wish to have 6 subs.... Headroom is never enough...

 

[voodooless]

The DAC solution, i suppose it's better from a quality point of view,

You won’t hear the difference anyway. The convenience of an AVR is just so much better. Atmos on a HTPC is basically a no-go, and even more so for streaming content.

and at least I wish to have 6 subs.... Headroom is never enough...

You can still have 8 subs. Like I said, just set them up in pairs.

 

[pablitho]

You can still have 8 subs. Like I said, just set them up in pairs.

So in this case DBLC will se 4 pair of subs?

Atmos on a HTPC is basically a no-go, and even more so for streaming content.

What if I don't need atmos? Then it will be easier?

 

[jhenderson0107]

Another approach to consider: Connect one subwoofer output channel (from the PC) to the analog input of a MiniDSP Flex driving 4 or 8 subwoofers. Optimize all sub channels using MSO. Then, optionally use Dirac live or any another preferred approach) to perform room correction.

 

[pablitho]

Another approach to consider: Connect one subwoofer output channel (from the PC) to the analog input of a MiniDSP Flex driving 4 or 8 subwoofers. Optimize all sub channels using MSO. Then, optionally use Dirac live or any another preferred approach) to perform room correction.

Seems another good strategy...
Sorry for the ignorant question, what is MSO? And it's easy to use?
The idea of DLBC is there e cause it will take all on this own.. And it's very easy procedure

 

[voodooless]

So in this case DBLC will se 4 pair of subs?

Yes, that could work. Obviously you’ll have some constraints on placement.

What if I don't need atmos? Then it will be easier?

A bit. You’ll still need that 16 channel audio interface though. And you’ll probably need a special channel config for Dirac Live.