Thanks for that. I see I can do that now. The volume steps are unusually abrupt (8db or so), but this appears to be a known issue.
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Minidsp SHD Review Updated (DSP, DAC & Streamer)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
nothingman
Senior Member
Just wanted to make a couple updates, hopefully without typing too much.
Noise issue (a short, high pitched noise when I put my Neo3 version into shutdown, more info here):
miniDSP finally decided to send me a new power supply after a million emails back and forth. Sadly that didn’t do anything, so the only option they will offer me is to send my unit to Hong Kong for analysis and repair. I already spent a month this year without a system because of the original failure. This noise issue is an annoyance but not enough for me to want to send them my unit unless a convenient time comes up while I’m still in the warranty period. I can’t stand dealing with miniDSP and resent everything about how they do business so the less I talk to them the better.
12V trigger out on Neo3 units, and this goes to my point about how horrible miniDSP is at communicating and taking good care of their customers:
When I heard about the Neo3 unit’s low power standby I decided to sell my first unit and buy a second. It wasn’t cost-effective in the least but it put a major nagging issue out of my mind once I could run a trigger from the USB Host port to my power amp. I detailed this here, and I sent all the same information (with links!) to miniDSP and Deer Creek Audio to tell them about what I was doing with the USB Host port. I literally could not have been more forthright and transparent with them about my setup and I heard nothing back from either party. I figured it was all kosher, then.
Well, when I reported this standby noise issue, after being completely silent about my 12V trigger since my email to them in March, miniDSP absolutely latched onto this as a potential issue. All of a sudden now they had serious reservations about running a cable from the USB Host port to the power amp trigger input over concerns of current over-draw and other malfunctions. They likened it to running a power amp without a fuse. Well, I tried to tell them that my amp’s power draw spec is miniscule, NAD rates the C298’s 12V trigger draw as 0.5ma-2ma, but they didn’t care. I also asked about the protections built into the Neo3 board, but they said it had only minimal protection.
They are insisting I run a USB 2.0 hub in between my SHD and my trigger cable. They say this is the only safe way to run this setup since the hub would include microprocessor protection for the powered bus. I’m extremely dubious this has any real effect on such a low current circuit and I think they wasted my time treating it as a scapegoat versus taking a critical look at their hardware, but the request itself is fine by me. This 2.0 hub cost me peanuts and has no ill effect on the function and serves as an insurance policy and gets miniDSP off my back. It obviously does nothing to fix the shutdown noise issue either.
What really gets me is that miniDSP and I had this conversation a month ago, and they haven’t said a damn thing to anyone on their own forum. People are always asking about 12V triggers for the SHD - surely they are aware there are people using USB Host as a power trigger - but miniDSP don’t even bother to help clarify this anywhere. As always, they are depending on their user base, in this case me, to take the time to tell you how to use your device within the manufacturer’s guidelines. I guess they think doing so themselves is a waste of their time.
I wanted to get this out there so that it’s on the record and you guys know that (bolding so you catch this) miniDSP will harass you if you don’t use a 2.0 hub between the USB Host and trigger cable, whether that’s a straight 5V connection or 12V via step-up cable.
Big picture, I’m sick and tired of miniDSP depending on us to do this sort of support and communication, so I’m going to make a conscious effort to not contribute to helping them anymore. They don’t deserve an active, collaborative user base if this is how they do things. I can tell from the last time I griped about them that I’m not the only one who feels they are clueless, bordering on incompetent, when you look at their Roon fiasco and the fact that Tidal Connect has been available for Volumio for over three months now and miniDSP won’t say a word to us. It’s embarassing.
Before long I hope someone taps into there being demand for the SHD series’ functionality and offering a solid competitor. I’ll switch the moment they do, even at considerable extra cost.
Noise issue (a short, high pitched noise when I put my Neo3 version into shutdown, more info here):
miniDSP finally decided to send me a new power supply after a million emails back and forth. Sadly that didn’t do anything, so the only option they will offer me is to send my unit to Hong Kong for analysis and repair. I already spent a month this year without a system because of the original failure. This noise issue is an annoyance but not enough for me to want to send them my unit unless a convenient time comes up while I’m still in the warranty period. I can’t stand dealing with miniDSP and resent everything about how they do business so the less I talk to them the better.
12V trigger out on Neo3 units, and this goes to my point about how horrible miniDSP is at communicating and taking good care of their customers:
When I heard about the Neo3 unit’s low power standby I decided to sell my first unit and buy a second. It wasn’t cost-effective in the least but it put a major nagging issue out of my mind once I could run a trigger from the USB Host port to my power amp. I detailed this here, and I sent all the same information (with links!) to miniDSP and Deer Creek Audio to tell them about what I was doing with the USB Host port. I literally could not have been more forthright and transparent with them about my setup and I heard nothing back from either party. I figured it was all kosher, then.
Well, when I reported this standby noise issue, after being completely silent about my 12V trigger since my email to them in March, miniDSP absolutely latched onto this as a potential issue. All of a sudden now they had serious reservations about running a cable from the USB Host port to the power amp trigger input over concerns of current over-draw and other malfunctions. They likened it to running a power amp without a fuse. Well, I tried to tell them that my amp’s power draw spec is miniscule, NAD rates the C298’s 12V trigger draw as 0.5ma-2ma, but they didn’t care. I also asked about the protections built into the Neo3 board, but they said it had only minimal protection.
They are insisting I run a USB 2.0 hub in between my SHD and my trigger cable. They say this is the only safe way to run this setup since the hub would include microprocessor protection for the powered bus. I’m extremely dubious this has any real effect on such a low current circuit and I think they wasted my time treating it as a scapegoat versus taking a critical look at their hardware, but the request itself is fine by me. This 2.0 hub cost me peanuts and has no ill effect on the function and serves as an insurance policy and gets miniDSP off my back. It obviously does nothing to fix the shutdown noise issue either.
What really gets me is that miniDSP and I had this conversation a month ago, and they haven’t said a damn thing to anyone on their own forum. People are always asking about 12V triggers for the SHD - surely they are aware there are people using USB Host as a power trigger - but miniDSP don’t even bother to help clarify this anywhere. As always, they are depending on their user base, in this case me, to take the time to tell you how to use your device within the manufacturer’s guidelines. I guess they think doing so themselves is a waste of their time.
I wanted to get this out there so that it’s on the record and you guys know that (bolding so you catch this) miniDSP will harass you if you don’t use a 2.0 hub between the USB Host and trigger cable, whether that’s a straight 5V connection or 12V via step-up cable.
Big picture, I’m sick and tired of miniDSP depending on us to do this sort of support and communication, so I’m going to make a conscious effort to not contribute to helping them anymore. They don’t deserve an active, collaborative user base if this is how they do things. I can tell from the last time I griped about them that I’m not the only one who feels they are clueless, bordering on incompetent, when you look at their Roon fiasco and the fact that Tidal Connect has been available for Volumio for over three months now and miniDSP won’t say a word to us. It’s embarassing.
Before long I hope someone taps into there being demand for the SHD series’ functionality and offering a solid competitor. I’ll switch the moment they do, even at considerable extra cost.
All this talk about several problems with the SHD and Minidsp's awful client service has really put me off buying a unit, too much risk involved. I currently use a DDRC-24 for some 2 way speakers and I'm happy but I really wanted something a bit more user friendly (screen, volume pot, etc) and with better specs. I think I'll be going down the PC multichannel dsp crossover, with a Dirac VST plug in. I still use my turntable though, so it could be a bigger challenge, but in the long run I'm guessing it'll be a smarter, better (or as good) sounding, more easily upgradeable (or replaceable) and cheaper.
dkinric
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Agree 100%. How incompetent do you have to be to have some of the best products in the industry, yet have customers actively despise you so much they will refuse to do business with you? Not sure if it's a cultural difference or just utter mismanagement.
What we really need is for Dirac to step up their game and incorporate new hardware partners.
Are we speaking of Minidsp or SMSL? Seems like this site has done a great job of flushing out and making obvious those companies that are less than complete (great products but non-existent customer service in this case).
I too was waiting (for roon cert) to buy the shd studio but am now reconsidering. The problem is, no one else provides a complete solution (for my needs)
Rock, meet hard place
Maybe I'm confused but I don't see the issue here.
They fixed your unit and our now providing you guidance on how they think you should setup the USB trigger based on their knowledge of their own product. Seems most likely they gathered some additional information about that relatively non-standard configuration and determined there could be an issue and you are mad about them sharing this guidance with you? Of course would have been great if they just included a trigger in the first place to avoid these work arounds solutions but that is a completely separate gripe.
Agree that the Roon / Volumio / Tidal Connect situation is not great, they definitely over promised and under delivered there.
I've always found their support quite good. Tickets are answered quickly and they provide good technical guidance.
Michael
They fixed your unit and our now providing you guidance on how they think you should setup the USB trigger based on their knowledge of their own product. Seems most likely they gathered some additional information about that relatively non-standard configuration and determined there could be an issue and you are mad about them sharing this guidance with you? Of course would have been great if they just included a trigger in the first place to avoid these work arounds solutions but that is a completely separate gripe.
Agree that the Roon / Volumio / Tidal Connect situation is not great, they definitely over promised and under delivered there.
I've always found their support quite good. Tickets are answered quickly and they provide good technical guidance.
Michael
nothingman
Senior Member
The issues are:
- I proactively provided detailed information to miniDSP and their US dealer of my trigger cable setup in March right after delivery of unit.
- The unit failed within three months of delivery (bad, but I understand this stuff happens).
- They ran me absolutely in circles troubleshooting the failure for days, often ignoring/missing key details I had already provided. There was an overall sense of skepticism that the unit even had a real problem. Their only starting position is “user error.”
- They refused to offer a replacement, but instead made me send in the unit to the US dealer repairs, this cost me $35 in shipping and took a month of my time without a functioning audio system (it’s my source and my preamp).
- When the unit returned after all that time, it did not function 100% properly. I now have a short, very high pitched noise come through the speakers when I put the unit in standby. Nothing else in the system changed.
- In the process of a new round of troubleshooting on the noise issue, they refused to acknowledge I had told them about the trigger cable setup and wouldn’t let this issue go.
- They are constantly badgered about the lack of trigger-out on their “preamp” and the idea of using the USB Host port. In the previous hardware revision (pre-Jan 1, 2021) it was impossible because the Pi board wouldn’t shut down on standby, but now they have that capability and it is extremely clear to them that people are using it this way.
- I am not mad with them for sharing guidance with me. I am mad they 1) pretend they have never heard of this use case when I know that’s a lie, 2) that they do nothing to communicate with the rest of their customers who are also using the USB Host port this way. They tell one person and move on and rely on that person sharing this guidance with everyone else. It’s a pattern with them, e.g. Roon at various stages.
- To be clear, they never said I broke anything using the 5V out this way, but their communication is frustrating, patronizing, and an enormous waste of time and a distraction from the issue I wanted them to fix.
- Now they say they again cannot offer a replacement to make this right, and that I must send the unit to Hong Kong for further analysis and repairs. They don’t care this will mean I don’t have an audio system for probably at least another full month, all in the first six months of my one year warranty.
- I have been treated so much better by so, so many companies with whom I purchased much less expensive, much less vital equipment. I literally can’t think of the last time I was so solidly stonewalled by a company that absolutely refuses to take responsibility for a major failure and then subsequent repair error. Sure, they make helpful products, publish helpful tutorials, answer tickets, but a company’s customer service is judged when something goes very wrong and a customer has every right to be dissatisfied. I believe that’s my case here, and the one thing I can tell you for sure is that they don’t care in the least that they are failing.
nothingman
Senior Member
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m trying to say. miniDSP would only allow the dealer to repair the unit via replacing the entire main board. That fixed the previous major malfunction (entire unit just shut down sporadically), but upon arrival back to me something else is off (the standby/shutdown noise). Now miniDSP won’t authorize anything other than sending the whole thing back to HK. Dealer’s hands are tied.
I am waiting for Roon certification before I purchase the SHD. Your experience is making me reconsider.
However, I have actually managed to find a review of the SHD other than Amir’s measurement review. It‘s a German review with translation but it is the only HiFI review I have found. It is quite positive.
https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...eaming-dac-mit-dirac-2-0/&prev=search&pto=aue
However, I have actually managed to find a review of the SHD other than Amir’s measurement review. It‘s a German review with translation but it is the only HiFI review I have found. It is quite positive.
https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...eaming-dac-mit-dirac-2-0/&prev=search&pto=aue
Last edited:
dkinric
Addicted to Fun and Learning
@nothingman
Tony@ miniDSP here.. I've read this thread along with your support ticket done with my team and feel sorry of your experience. We strive to do our best to help all our customers to the best we can. We're sorry to see that your experience if this way... Sometimes a string of events happen, that doesn't mean that miniDSP as a whole is the worst company to deal with...We fully understand that troubleshooting an issue isn't fun. Nobody wants to go through this. :-( We do our best to understand the issues and solve them. Remotely, with emails it's not the easiest and we always learn to improve.
There are few comments here that I'd love to clarify so we can maybe be open about the issue? Since this whole issue is in the open, it's worth that we get our side of the story out so we can improve as a whole.
- As you received within a short period (3month) you had a failure of the unit which is very rare. We received your unit and saw an issue on the DC-DC section. When the second symptoms on a brand new unit was triggered, we wanted to get the whole unit so we could investigate the issue. We did state that we'd cover all cost. We simply wanted to put the unit on the audioprecision for few days running a set of scripts. Something that our dealer just can't do I'm afraid. We're sorry that it's not fitting your needs. If we get the unit back to us, we are confident that we'll be able to solve this issue.
- We're sorry to see that you're thinking we're harrassing you for that USB trigger device, it wasn't our intent. :-( As we already stated, we would not be taking that element as a cause of the failure or trigger any out of warranty case. Once again just to be clear, we do not want to use this as an excuse. We just want to understand the issue so we can solve the problem.. That's all.. As mentioned in the email, we haven't seen such device and don't know how they are built/made. When you opened the inside for us to guess the schematics, we saw that there isn't any safety method on that specific cable to prevent a surge. It's drawing the current directly from the 5V and no handshaking via an MCU on the current capabilities. That's where we suggested to put inline a hub so you could get protection.. That is all there is to read and we're really sorry to see that it was misunderstood as harrassment.. :-(
- Roon-Ready: While the unit was never advertised as roon ready(datasheet/manual), we indeed had "Beta support" for a while as we worked through the certification. Roon removed that support, Covid came, lots of chipset became EOL and we had to rebuild a whole image for a new chipset (putting delay on Roon modifications). We had to modify the kernel and drivers to support some of their new features and unfortunately this took longer than usual. The unit was for 2months in waiting line @RoonLabs but we did get some last request on latest firmware 2weeks ago. Engineers are working on it! We're sorry it takes some time and definitely yet another case why we don't want to share timeline as some elements are completely outside our control.. :-( Our mistake, our bad.
- Tidal-Connect: This new feature from Tidal isn't something that volumio supported initially but then added. It's not available simply because Tidal requires an OEM agreement and it's not yet approved by Tidal even after 6months we asked for it. Sometimes it's not as simple as it looks from the outset I'm afraid.. :-( WE don't talk about it, simply so we do get into the exact same issue as above.. Sharing will get us in trouble..
We always strive to help to the best of our abilities all our customers... Sometimes, we mess up and don't meet expectations. It unfortunately happens and we will keep learning to improve.
The SHD series is now running in a lot of homes, studio, professional setup for lots of happy customers. We're sorry that it didn't work out and you see our company under this angle.. At this stage, we're not too sure what could solve the gripe as it sounds like there is water under the bridge but if you could maybe just take out the SHD from your system for few days, give it a rest, let us troubleshoot the issue. I'm sure that would be a great way forward so we make sure that the issue is solved once and for all? The power supply wasn't the issue was we suspected. Something else is going on and we want to see it on the system rather than sending again another board. That's all we're trying to do..
Feel free to start a support ticket with our team,
Tony
Tony@ miniDSP here.. I've read this thread along with your support ticket done with my team and feel sorry of your experience. We strive to do our best to help all our customers to the best we can. We're sorry to see that your experience if this way... Sometimes a string of events happen, that doesn't mean that miniDSP as a whole is the worst company to deal with...We fully understand that troubleshooting an issue isn't fun. Nobody wants to go through this. :-( We do our best to understand the issues and solve them. Remotely, with emails it's not the easiest and we always learn to improve.
There are few comments here that I'd love to clarify so we can maybe be open about the issue? Since this whole issue is in the open, it's worth that we get our side of the story out so we can improve as a whole.
- As you received within a short period (3month) you had a failure of the unit which is very rare. We received your unit and saw an issue on the DC-DC section. When the second symptoms on a brand new unit was triggered, we wanted to get the whole unit so we could investigate the issue. We did state that we'd cover all cost. We simply wanted to put the unit on the audioprecision for few days running a set of scripts. Something that our dealer just can't do I'm afraid. We're sorry that it's not fitting your needs. If we get the unit back to us, we are confident that we'll be able to solve this issue.
- We're sorry to see that you're thinking we're harrassing you for that USB trigger device, it wasn't our intent. :-( As we already stated, we would not be taking that element as a cause of the failure or trigger any out of warranty case. Once again just to be clear, we do not want to use this as an excuse. We just want to understand the issue so we can solve the problem.. That's all.. As mentioned in the email, we haven't seen such device and don't know how they are built/made. When you opened the inside for us to guess the schematics, we saw that there isn't any safety method on that specific cable to prevent a surge. It's drawing the current directly from the 5V and no handshaking via an MCU on the current capabilities. That's where we suggested to put inline a hub so you could get protection.. That is all there is to read and we're really sorry to see that it was misunderstood as harrassment.. :-(
- Roon-Ready: While the unit was never advertised as roon ready(datasheet/manual), we indeed had "Beta support" for a while as we worked through the certification. Roon removed that support, Covid came, lots of chipset became EOL and we had to rebuild a whole image for a new chipset (putting delay on Roon modifications). We had to modify the kernel and drivers to support some of their new features and unfortunately this took longer than usual. The unit was for 2months in waiting line @RoonLabs but we did get some last request on latest firmware 2weeks ago. Engineers are working on it! We're sorry it takes some time and definitely yet another case why we don't want to share timeline as some elements are completely outside our control.. :-( Our mistake, our bad.
- Tidal-Connect: This new feature from Tidal isn't something that volumio supported initially but then added. It's not available simply because Tidal requires an OEM agreement and it's not yet approved by Tidal even after 6months we asked for it. Sometimes it's not as simple as it looks from the outset I'm afraid.. :-( WE don't talk about it, simply so we do get into the exact same issue as above.. Sharing will get us in trouble..
We always strive to help to the best of our abilities all our customers... Sometimes, we mess up and don't meet expectations. It unfortunately happens and we will keep learning to improve.
The SHD series is now running in a lot of homes, studio, professional setup for lots of happy customers. We're sorry that it didn't work out and you see our company under this angle.. At this stage, we're not too sure what could solve the gripe as it sounds like there is water under the bridge but if you could maybe just take out the SHD from your system for few days, give it a rest, let us troubleshoot the issue. I'm sure that would be a great way forward so we make sure that the issue is solved once and for all? The power supply wasn't the issue was we suspected. Something else is going on and we want to see it on the system rather than sending again another board. That's all we're trying to do..
Feel free to start a support ticket with our team,
Tony
nothingman
Senior Member
I don’t like dragging everyone into a back and forth, but I think it’s good for people to hear from @devteam , and to show that there isn’t a dispute over the facts I provided.
You still don’t get it. This whole thing has nothing to do with me misunderstanding what service was done by the dealer. I don’t need the umpteenth explanation about what was replaced, or why you now want it sent to Hong Kong. I also don’t need another explanation of why you don’t trust the USB power cable. That’s all crystal clear and always has been. You’re so focused on these explanations you’re missing the big picture which is that you are falling short on communication and customer service.
I’ve begged you guys to put yourselves in my shoes and you still refuse. I paid for your flagship product (for the second time, remember), and it failed on me. The first “very rare” failure, ok, stuff happens. But now, after I spent a month without a system, the repair comes back to me with a new problem? That’s on you and it’s time for you to step up. If you want my SHD running scripts on a bench in Hong Kong for several days, great, but that absolutely should not be on my time without a functioning system again. This isn’t some ethical conundrum. These are basic customer expectations that I believe are universal.
I don’t know what’s more surprising, that you would call my position a “gripe” which is straight up insulting to my experience, or that you are so defeatist that you would suggest there’s simply nothing you can do to make me happy. You can! I’ve told you a million times and it’s obvious to everyone here: just replace the unit! Please! You could have done so weeks ago. It would have been the right thing to do, kept a customer satisfied, and prevented this whole public airing where a lot of other people joined in share their poor experiences and perception of your company. Doing the wrong thing has consequences and I’m not the only one seeing it that way.
To set the record straight: you absolutely could make this right today by sending a new replacement and return shipping label. Take my credit card number for a security deposit on getting the broken one back. After already going through the repair process I’m due for no more hassles, no more delays. Please. I‘ve asked for this before, but now this is my public plea.
I’m a customer who has tried to be active and helpful to other users on your forum and ASR, and earlier this year I even took time to record and send you several videos to help you track down the remote control bug that you were convinced didn’t exist until I sent you evidence (despite many reports on your own forum). With that information you were able to fix an issue for a bunch of your other customers. You even had me test beta firmware for you. I don’t think that means I deserve special treatment, indeed, I think what I’m asking for is perfectly normal treatment, but if you’re not going to take care of me then that is huge red flag for anyone else.
Side notes, because they perfectly exemplify your misguided communication:
You still don’t get it. This whole thing has nothing to do with me misunderstanding what service was done by the dealer. I don’t need the umpteenth explanation about what was replaced, or why you now want it sent to Hong Kong. I also don’t need another explanation of why you don’t trust the USB power cable. That’s all crystal clear and always has been. You’re so focused on these explanations you’re missing the big picture which is that you are falling short on communication and customer service.
I’ve begged you guys to put yourselves in my shoes and you still refuse. I paid for your flagship product (for the second time, remember), and it failed on me. The first “very rare” failure, ok, stuff happens. But now, after I spent a month without a system, the repair comes back to me with a new problem? That’s on you and it’s time for you to step up. If you want my SHD running scripts on a bench in Hong Kong for several days, great, but that absolutely should not be on my time without a functioning system again. This isn’t some ethical conundrum. These are basic customer expectations that I believe are universal.
I don’t know what’s more surprising, that you would call my position a “gripe” which is straight up insulting to my experience, or that you are so defeatist that you would suggest there’s simply nothing you can do to make me happy. You can! I’ve told you a million times and it’s obvious to everyone here: just replace the unit! Please! You could have done so weeks ago. It would have been the right thing to do, kept a customer satisfied, and prevented this whole public airing where a lot of other people joined in share their poor experiences and perception of your company. Doing the wrong thing has consequences and I’m not the only one seeing it that way.
To set the record straight: you absolutely could make this right today by sending a new replacement and return shipping label. Take my credit card number for a security deposit on getting the broken one back. After already going through the repair process I’m due for no more hassles, no more delays. Please. I‘ve asked for this before, but now this is my public plea.
I’m a customer who has tried to be active and helpful to other users on your forum and ASR, and earlier this year I even took time to record and send you several videos to help you track down the remote control bug that you were convinced didn’t exist until I sent you evidence (despite many reports on your own forum). With that information you were able to fix an issue for a bunch of your other customers. You even had me test beta firmware for you. I don’t think that means I deserve special treatment, indeed, I think what I’m asking for is perfectly normal treatment, but if you’re not going to take care of me then that is huge red flag for anyone else.
Side notes, because they perfectly exemplify your misguided communication:
- The nerve to tell me to start a ticket. As if I don’t have a ticket that is 30+ messages deep that you currently ghosted me on. I emailed you guys on July 4 about the trigger cable thing where I provided a screenshot of my email back in March, and on July 9 I told you about how I installed the new power supply and it didn’t fix the issue and, once more, explained my frustration and stated very clearly that I think I’m due a replacement. You guys didn’t reply to either email. Not even to say, “sorry to hear that power supply didn’t fix the issue.”
- You repeatedly explain your reasoning behind objecting to the trigger cable without a USB hub, but you selectively and completely ignore 1) that I provided you specific details about using this cable back in March and you didn’t say a word, and 2) why you haven’t made any effort to communicate this apparently vital information to any other users.
- Once again, you do your thing where you tap the sign that says “we don’t talk about timelines” but then when pressure builds from mass customer frustration you just blurt out specific details that you haven’t shared anywhere else in seeming defiance of your own rule. For example, why haven’t you once addressed Tidal Connect until now, buried in a long message about a separate matter? Why not share that information in the last newsletter or somewhere on your own forum? Don’t you get that you’re making everything worse for yourself?
- When you see other people say stuff like this (all in just the past three pages of this thread!), does it give you any pause? I didn’t make anyone say any of this stuff. Many have their own bad experiences. Isn’t it time to rethink your approach?
- “their engagement with interested buyers is the worst I've ever seen”
- “100% agree this is terrible customer support”
- “I would definitely look for another solution before jumping on that train”
- “It seems to me that they were much more active, provided much better support and actively worked with the community to implement new features in their early days”
- “It is unbelievable for an electronics company to have such a unique and performant product and with the possibility of dominating Room Correction market can piss off customers this way. If they paid a little more attention to customer service, they could become a stellar audio electronics company.”
- “it's shame they aren't aiming higher in terms of customer service. If they are doing it because their margins are tight it seems like a false economy”
- “All this talk about several problems with the SHD and Minidsp's awful client service has really put me off buying a unit”
- “How incompetent do you have to be to have some of the best products in the industry, yet have customers actively despise you so much they will refuse to do business with you?”
- “Seems like this site has done a great job of flushing out and making obvious those companies that are less than complete (great products but non-existent customer service in this case).”
@tony,
At this stage, we can all see this from the tone of the post that you're extremely upset at us. I tried in the above email to share more details from our point of view and unfortunately it got seen as a way as if we're trying to make excuses to the unfortunate series of event.. :-( That wasn't the intent, that was just to go back and forth so we see the other side. Sharing ideas, comments doesn't always mean trying to find an excuse and walking away from the problem.. Else I wouldn't put my name on this thread to "engage" with the customer. Please understand that I wasn't personally involved in this support back and forth so I'm just trying to follow up the situation and most importantly find a solution. I do take the responsibility as I run miniDSP but please bear with me for a sec here when I say "miniDSP".I wasn't personally involved here, just trying to help.
Without starting into a back and forth that could take forever, I will summarize the situation as:
1) You had a faulty unit. It sucks! Sorry.
2) Our dealer tried to help
3) That fix solve an issue but somehow the system has another issue.
4) Because we can't find any relation between the 2, we simply wanted to see how these are related and if there is something we're missing instead of keeping sending units.. That is just our standard policy and we've been able to solve many issues this way as the unit would be out for few days. To be honest, it has never been an issue in the past and that maybe the reason why our team is surprised. We live we learn.
I'm just getting up to speed here, I will talk to George @deercreekaudio to see what can be done.
As for the other comments, I do value how we can learn from this exercise indeed! There are 2 examples worth looking at where I really hope/think that we're both reading in between the lines and unfortunately unable to come to an agreement.. I'll try one last time to be of help to see if I can clarify what I mean, what I said.. it's very possible I'll fail but then again, worth a trial! If I were at a bar, I'm sure I'd be able to make my point accross..
- On the trigger cable, we never ignored anything and once again, what I meant is that we learned over time. Going through the valuable back and forth emails, we did learn how that specific USB trigger cable that you are using works (i.e. thanks for you to open that specific 3rd party product). We've never seen one before so simply didn't know.. Every single day we have customers telling us how our gear is interfacing to others, we don't know them all. Talking to the engineers, we learned how it could be an issue. We shared that simple "safety feedback with you to put a hub to protect from surge. That's all.. Would it have been possible in a perfect world to spot that tiny element back then? Sure! We're human we miss some details when troubleshooting remotely these issues... We also only thought of it when we got your motherboard back few weeks later from Deercreek. That's when the engineers thought of it.. Once again, it was just sharing a tip to protect your unit.. Would you mind to maybe share a bit more what would you have expected from our team once we learned that this cable can be an issue? We can learn for future. Every single day we give advise to customers on how to use their system at its best/safest way.
- Roon/Tidal: You're correct that indeed we don't share the details and I guess it's not what everybody wants in this day and age of newsflash... Do you hopefully see our point that it's a chicken and egg situation? If we share but have issues/limitations outside our control and have delays, we're getting it wrong. If we don't share, because we simply do not want people to think we're working on it and have vaporware, we're getting wrong.. Can you imagine if we would have stated "We're working on Tidal Connect", next post interpreted by the community = "MiniDSP will have Tidal connect support" = "Why I don't have Tidal connect on our unit" = "You're lying to us, miniDSP sold us a unit that doesn't support Tidal Connect".. All this time still being under R&D/agreement/delays outside our control... It's a slippery slope.. From experience running miniDSP for years, we feel that it's Best to simply not talk of it, not set expectation.. Do our best to keep plowing, keep pushing free extra features and then surprise the community... But we can understand how maybe it's not a right fit for everybody... We're not sure how to solve this to be honest. We do want to be involved, we do want to hear from community and we do read all feature requests but we don't want vaporware.. Anytime I hear of Roon, it breaks my heart because it's something that I would much rather surprise the community with rather than say "Yes, we're actively working on it as we're indeed are".
As for the feedback on support, we don't like seeing such comments and who really in their right mind would? Following 10years anniversary, we're not sure how we ended up being viewed as such.... :-( We can only say that it's quite at odds with all the work we're doing being the scenes to help our customers with dedicated engineers, support team and management team. Over the past 10years we run miniDSP, we do have a large community, lots of products and lots of happy customers with impressive setup and feedback. I will not hide that the past year has been challenging keeping up everybody happy... We get about 100support tickets a day which we answer within 24~48h max, we all plow through each custom system, engineers are stopping R&D to custom code firmware to solve issue... We battle the elements of supply chain in the mean time meaning we need to custom code new chipset on the fly.. We're growing the support team and a new member will be addressed to more community work starting from Mid August... Once again we're not trying to find an excuse as to why these customers are so unhappy, to be honest I'm a bit surprised at such anger at us but I guess it's hard to make everybody happy and I'd be interested to hear from them directly. They can easily start a support ticket with us with the specific product they have and why our support team wasn't able to help answer their request (support.minidsp.com). It is valuable to us so we can learn here!
Overall, I'm hoping to come to a conclusion for your case so you can enjoy your SHD again!
Tony
At this stage, we can all see this from the tone of the post that you're extremely upset at us. I tried in the above email to share more details from our point of view and unfortunately it got seen as a way as if we're trying to make excuses to the unfortunate series of event.. :-( That wasn't the intent, that was just to go back and forth so we see the other side. Sharing ideas, comments doesn't always mean trying to find an excuse and walking away from the problem.. Else I wouldn't put my name on this thread to "engage" with the customer. Please understand that I wasn't personally involved in this support back and forth so I'm just trying to follow up the situation and most importantly find a solution. I do take the responsibility as I run miniDSP but please bear with me for a sec here when I say "miniDSP".I wasn't personally involved here, just trying to help.
Without starting into a back and forth that could take forever, I will summarize the situation as:
1) You had a faulty unit. It sucks! Sorry.
2) Our dealer tried to help
3) That fix solve an issue but somehow the system has another issue.
4) Because we can't find any relation between the 2, we simply wanted to see how these are related and if there is something we're missing instead of keeping sending units.. That is just our standard policy and we've been able to solve many issues this way as the unit would be out for few days. To be honest, it has never been an issue in the past and that maybe the reason why our team is surprised. We live we learn.
I'm just getting up to speed here, I will talk to George @deercreekaudio to see what can be done.
As for the other comments, I do value how we can learn from this exercise indeed! There are 2 examples worth looking at where I really hope/think that we're both reading in between the lines and unfortunately unable to come to an agreement.. I'll try one last time to be of help to see if I can clarify what I mean, what I said.. it's very possible I'll fail but then again, worth a trial! If I were at a bar, I'm sure I'd be able to make my point accross..
- On the trigger cable, we never ignored anything and once again, what I meant is that we learned over time. Going through the valuable back and forth emails, we did learn how that specific USB trigger cable that you are using works (i.e. thanks for you to open that specific 3rd party product). We've never seen one before so simply didn't know.. Every single day we have customers telling us how our gear is interfacing to others, we don't know them all. Talking to the engineers, we learned how it could be an issue. We shared that simple "safety feedback with you to put a hub to protect from surge. That's all..
Would it have been possible in a perfect world to spot that tiny element back then? Sure! We're human we miss some details when troubleshooting remotely these issues... We also only thought of it when we got your motherboard back few weeks later from Deercreek. That's when the engineers thought of it.. Once again, it was just sharing a tip to protect your unit.. Would you mind to maybe share a bit more what would you have expected from our team once we learned that this cable can be an issue? We can learn for future. Every single day we give advise to customers on how to use their system at its best/safest way. - Roon/Tidal: You're correct that indeed we don't share the details and I guess it's not what everybody wants in this day and age of newsflash... Do you hopefully see our point that it's a chicken and egg situation? If we share but have issues/limitations outside our control and have delays, we're getting it wrong. If we don't share, because we simply do not want people to think we're working on it and have vaporware, we're getting wrong.. Can you imagine if we would have stated "We're working on Tidal Connect", next post interpreted by the community = "MiniDSP will have Tidal connect support" = "Why I don't have Tidal connect on our unit" = "You're lying to us, miniDSP sold us a unit that doesn't support Tidal Connect".. All this time still being under R&D/agreement/delays outside our control... It's a slippery slope.. From experience running miniDSP for years, we feel that it's Best to simply not talk of it, not set expectation.. Do our best to keep plowing, keep pushing free extra features and then surprise the community... But we can understand how maybe it's not a right fit for everybody... We're not sure how to solve this to be honest. We do want to be involved, we do want to hear from community and we do read all feature requests but we don't want vaporware.. Anytime I hear of Roon, it breaks my heart because it's something that I would much rather surprise the community with rather than say "Yes, we're actively working on it as we're indeed are".
As for the feedback on support, we don't like seeing such comments and who really in their right mind would? Following 10years anniversary, we're not sure how we ended up being viewed as such.... :-( We can only say that it's quite at odds with all the work we're doing being the scenes to help our customers with dedicated engineers, support team and management team. Over the past 10years we run miniDSP, we do have a large community, lots of products and lots of happy customers with impressive setup and feedback. I will not hide that the past year has been challenging keeping up everybody happy... We get about 100support tickets a day which we answer within 24~48h max, we all plow through each custom system, engineers are stopping R&D to custom code firmware to solve issue... We battle the elements of supply chain in the mean time meaning we need to custom code new chipset on the fly.. We're growing the support team and a new member will be addressed to more community work starting from Mid August... Once again we're not trying to find an excuse as to why these customers are so unhappy, to be honest I'm a bit surprised at such anger at us but I guess it's hard to make everybody happy and I'd be interested to hear from them directly. They can easily start a support ticket with us with the specific product they have and why our support team wasn't able to help answer their request (support.minidsp.com). It is valuable to us so we can learn here!
Overall, I'm hoping to come to a conclusion for your case so you can enjoy your SHD again!
Tony
Tony
Appreciate your responses here. I have no skin in the game nor am i trying to stir up the pot but while i am not currently a minidsp owner, i "was" going to buy an shd before I read this thread. As such, i am following this to its closure. Based upon your above responses I am back open to reconsidering a shd purchase.
As with every disagreement between 2 parties, each has their own perception of what has happened and the longer it lives, the deeper both parties dig in their heels. I do find it sad that it has come to this and this could not have been resolved as it "appears" that is what you both want. Its just how to go about finding a mutually acceptable solution. Unfortunately, it appears to have gone beyond that point until someone is going to back down.
I am sure there are a lot of details that have been left out but I am interested in knowing your response regarding @nothingman claim you ghosted him. With him in the US and you in Asia, what other forms of communication are available (other than email) to work with customers who have questions or problems? If minidsp ignores or ghosts someone then minidsp has cutoff all communication paths. This is unacceptable imho and if this is how customers are dealt with (Even if they are a pain in the butt and persistent) I want to know now as that business practice is one that i avoid when picking my vendors.
Just to reiterate the obvious, we all make mistakes or have problems we encounter (product problems, timelines that arent met, etc) but what differentiates business leaders from those that dont survive is how they respond to those mistakes/problems.
PS - if the testing of second unit was that important to learn from, i would pay to get that unit back, whatever the cost. That is the cost of education.
Appreciate your responses here. I have no skin in the game nor am i trying to stir up the pot but while i am not currently a minidsp owner, i "was" going to buy an shd before I read this thread. As such, i am following this to its closure. Based upon your above responses I am back open to reconsidering a shd purchase.
As with every disagreement between 2 parties, each has their own perception of what has happened and the longer it lives, the deeper both parties dig in their heels. I do find it sad that it has come to this and this could not have been resolved as it "appears" that is what you both want. Its just how to go about finding a mutually acceptable solution. Unfortunately, it appears to have gone beyond that point until someone is going to back down.
I am sure there are a lot of details that have been left out but I am interested in knowing your response regarding @nothingman claim you ghosted him. With him in the US and you in Asia, what other forms of communication are available (other than email) to work with customers who have questions or problems? If minidsp ignores or ghosts someone then minidsp has cutoff all communication paths. This is unacceptable imho and if this is how customers are dealt with (Even if they are a pain in the butt and persistent) I want to know now as that business practice is one that i avoid when picking my vendors.
Just to reiterate the obvious, we all make mistakes or have problems we encounter (product problems, timelines that arent met, etc) but what differentiates business leaders from those that dont survive is how they respond to those mistakes/problems.
PS - if the testing of second unit was that important to learn from, i would pay to get that unit back, whatever the cost. That is the cost of education.
nothingman
Senior Member
I hope to hear something positive back after you’ve had a chance to review and reconsider. That’s all I can really say at this point. The appropriate conclusion is extremely clear to me, and it’s entirely within your power to set this right.
Yes, we’re talking past each other. On the trigger cable, I simply find it impossible you were ignorant that people would use the low-power mode of the Neo3 revision for this purpose. There multiple threads that mention this topic on your forum, like here and here and here and here (I mean, c’mon, in that last link someone raises the issue of a USB hub after you had your conversation with the engineers about the risk of using USB power, and you don’t take the opportunity to tell everyone about the safety aspect of a USB hub?), and not that I expect you to read this thread, but here you are, and you seem to have missed all of the mentions in previous pages too. My advice, since you asked, is to pick anywhere on your own website and tell people there is a risk to using the 5V output without a USB hub in place. You should care enough about the safe functioning of people’s investment in your hardware to be proactive about this. You must know at this point you sorta screwed up releasing a preamp without a trigger out because everyone is always talking about it being a missing feature. At least meet us halfway and help us understand how to get the most out of what we have available in a safe manner.
On Roon and communication generally, fine, do what you want. I think you’re shooting yourself in the foot. The policy you say is to prevent people from getting mad at you is causing people to get mad at you. In my view, everyone seems happy and satisfied when we get an update from you, and everyone’s frustrated when we ask on your forum for any sign of life and we get zero in return. Then you arrive after the pressure builds to remind us for the millionth time that it’s all for our own good. It’s patronizing, if you ask me, but I’ve given up hope on this issue. I just don’t think you get to pat yourself on the back about building a community when activity on your own forum is dwindling and people feel like miniDSP is largely absent from the conversation. Tidal Connect is four page thread on your forum and you haven’t even acknowledged our existence.
I noticed he didn’t respond to this either. It’s an entirely factual claim. I sent two emails, one including a screenshot of our previous 12V trigger conversation, and one about how the power supply didn’t work and my frustration with the whole process, both entirely polite as I’ve always been with them, and they didn’t reply at all. Nothing.
I completely agree. Case in point: the last I heard, my main board that was extracted from my failing unit was happily working in Hong Kong without them reproducing the failure that I extensively documented on video and that was also experienced by the US dealer with the unit in his own system. By forcing this whole “repair,” they lost their only opportunity to get my complete unit in their lab to test it and see the failure for themselves and learn something. They forwent that education to save a buck and in turn wasted a bunch of my time and caused the knock-on effect of there still being something wrong. Now they want the whole unit, but aren’t willing to just swap it. Above @devteam literally called this idea “a great path forward,” as if that time without music and TV audio in my life is of no cost. A perfect example of how they aren’t rising to the task of understanding their customers.
Amen.
Yes, we’re talking past each other. On the trigger cable, I simply find it impossible you were ignorant that people would use the low-power mode of the Neo3 revision for this purpose. There multiple threads that mention this topic on your forum, like here and here and here and here (I mean, c’mon, in that last link someone raises the issue of a USB hub after you had your conversation with the engineers about the risk of using USB power, and you don’t take the opportunity to tell everyone about the safety aspect of a USB hub?), and not that I expect you to read this thread, but here you are, and you seem to have missed all of the mentions in previous pages too. My advice, since you asked, is to pick anywhere on your own website and tell people there is a risk to using the 5V output without a USB hub in place. You should care enough about the safe functioning of people’s investment in your hardware to be proactive about this. You must know at this point you sorta screwed up releasing a preamp without a trigger out because everyone is always talking about it being a missing feature. At least meet us halfway and help us understand how to get the most out of what we have available in a safe manner.
On Roon and communication generally, fine, do what you want. I think you’re shooting yourself in the foot. The policy you say is to prevent people from getting mad at you is causing people to get mad at you. In my view, everyone seems happy and satisfied when we get an update from you, and everyone’s frustrated when we ask on your forum for any sign of life and we get zero in return. Then you arrive after the pressure builds to remind us for the millionth time that it’s all for our own good. It’s patronizing, if you ask me, but I’ve given up hope on this issue. I just don’t think you get to pat yourself on the back about building a community when activity on your own forum is dwindling and people feel like miniDSP is largely absent from the conversation. Tidal Connect is four page thread on your forum and you haven’t even acknowledged our existence.
I noticed he didn’t respond to this either. It’s an entirely factual claim. I sent two emails, one including a screenshot of our previous 12V trigger conversation, and one about how the power supply didn’t work and my frustration with the whole process, both entirely polite as I’ve always been with them, and they didn’t reply at all. Nothing.
I completely agree. Case in point: the last I heard, my main board that was extracted from my failing unit was happily working in Hong Kong without them reproducing the failure that I extensively documented on video and that was also experienced by the US dealer with the unit in his own system. By forcing this whole “repair,” they lost their only opportunity to get my complete unit in their lab to test it and see the failure for themselves and learn something. They forwent that education to save a buck and in turn wasted a bunch of my time and caused the knock-on effect of there still being something wrong. Now they want the whole unit, but aren’t willing to just swap it. Above @devteam literally called this idea “a great path forward,” as if that time without music and TV audio in my life is of no cost. A perfect example of how they aren’t rising to the task of understanding their customers.
Amen.
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dkinric
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Seems most of this could have been avoided by offering a replacement unit up front, especially for a new unit under warranty. Does MiniDSP ever do this? As a consumer, I would expect this for a $1000+ product that can easily be shipped.
nothingman
Senior Member
No question about it. I repeatedly requested for that solution at the start. Once I had all the video evidence for them to show it wasn’t user error, and especially once the failure was verified by the dealer, I begged for them to not do a half-measure repair and to set me right with a swap. They refused. Now I don’t even get credit for going along with the repair and now being taken care of without further headaches.
It has cost them far more time, customer frustration, and now reputational damage to do things their way, and they still don’t seem to really get it.
You’re right, the shipping box is slim and weighs just 11lbs. It couldn’t be easier. This is not some 100lbs power amp that needs to ship on a freight pallet.
It has cost them far more time, customer frustration, and now reputational damage to do things their way, and they still don’t seem to really get it.
You’re right, the shipping box is slim and weighs just 11lbs. It couldn’t be easier. This is not some 100lbs power amp that needs to ship on a freight pallet.
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I was not aware of the usb hub issue. I power my topping d50s via the USB port of my shd studio.
What kind of USB hub do I need? Do I need a hub with external power supply? Where can I find more details on this issue?
What kind of USB hub do I need? Do I need a hub with external power supply? Where can I find more details on this issue?
nothingman
Senior Member
I’m almost getting tired of saying this, but “case in point” yet again. Where can you find more details? You can’t! There’s no guidance from miniDSP about this, and if it wasn’t for me no one would have a clue about it.
It’s almost comical. miniDSP read all that brutal feedback from us, and they’re absolutely flabbergasted but don’t make the connection to the real world. There’s an entire thread of people pointing at my situation saying “this is exactly why.”
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