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miniDSP Flex

gmoney

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I ended up just buying the analog out Flex. This is a desktop setup and I just don't want to deal with any adapters or volume matching. The goal is plug everything in, run Dirac and enjoy the setup.

$700 is a lot of money to spend especially when my concern is versatility and future use which the balanced version probably wins at but either way I don't see myself replacing it or the amp in the next 4-5 years (only speaker swaps because I can't control my curiosity) so yeah decision made.
 

Glasvegas

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Found the following excerpt from a old Benchmark guide on the web. Can't seem to find the original link. For the flex we just need to find out which of the 3 balanced out configurations is used and connect a cable accordingly
impedance-balanced - float or ground ring , either is fine
transformer-balanced - ground ring
active-balanced - float ring







See below:

When connecting audio equipment, it is important to understand the differences between various types of 'inputs' and 'outputs'. It is especially important to understand differences in electrical specifications. Connecting gear without proper electrical considerations could degrade the system's performance, or even damage the equipment. This article will discuss the necessary considerations of connecting balanced and unbalanced connections (e.g., XLR-to-RCA).

Definition of Terms and Concepts

Before discussing the techniques, a few concepts should be explained. The following concepts are true for the large majority of equipment (although exceptions do exist):



  • Balanced connections have three signal conductors, referred to as: hot, cold, and shield.
  • The hot signal conductor carries the audio information.
  • The role of the cold signal conductor varies depending on topology (more on this to follow). Often, but not always, the cold signal conductor carries an inverted (polarity-reversed) copy of the hot signal.
  • The shield conductor is sometimes referred to as 'ground', and it usually connects the cable shield to chassis ground for the purposes of providing a signal shield and eliminating ground loops.
  • For XLR connectors, pin-2 is the hot conductor, pin-3 is the cold conductor, and pin-1 is the shield conductor.
  • For ¼" TRS connectors, the tip, ring, and sleeve respectively carry the hot, cold, and shield conductor (equivalent to pin-2, pin-3, and pin-1, respectively, of an XLR connector)
  • Unbalanced connections (RCA; ¼" TS) have two signal conductors: hot and shield (the hot signal conductor carries the audio information).


Connecting Balanced Outputs to Unbalanced Inputs

Balanced outputs are very common on professional products. Unbalanced inputs are very common with vintage equipment and consumer electronics. Establishing proper inter-connections between balanced and unbalanced equipment is imperative for the performance of the system (and may also prevent damage to the equipment).

There are three types of balanced outputs: 'impedance balanced', 'transformer balanced', and 'active balanced'. Each type of balanced output requires different considerations when connecting to an unbalanced load. With each case discussed, we will assume that 2-conductor (unbalanced) wire is being used, as 3-conductor wire will offer no advantages when driving unbalanced loads.

Devices with impedance-balanced outputs actively drive the hot output only. The cold output is tied to ground via a resistor that matches (or balances) the output impedance of the hot signal conductor. In other words, there is no audio signal on the cold conductor, but, in a full balanced system, common-mode rejection will be maintained since the impedance is balanced between the two conductors.

Impedance-balanced outputs can connect to unbalanced loads with the cold output 'floated' (unconnected) or connected to ground. There will be no performance or other differences between a floated or grounded cold conductor (pin-3) with impedance-balanced outputs. Using an XLR connector, this corresponds to pin-3 floating or tied to pin-1. The hot signal conductor will be connected to pin-2, as usual, and it will carry the audio information. The shield conductor will be connected, as usual, to pin-1.

Devices with transformer-balanced outputs actively drive the primary winding of the output transformer. The secondary winding of the output transformer delivers a symmetrical signal to the hot and cold signal conductors.

Transformer-balanced outputs must have the cold output tied to the shield conductor when connecting to an unbalanced load. Using an XLR connector, this corresponds to tying pin-3 to pin-1. The hot signal conductor will be connected to pin-2, as usual, and it will carry the audio information. The shield conductor will be connected, as usual, to pin-1.

Devices with active-balanced outputs actively drive both the hot output and the cold output. The signal on the cold output is an inverted (polarity-reversed) version of the signal on the hot output. This creates symmetrical signals between the hot and cold outputs. This is the topology of all Benchmark equipment.

When connecting an active-balanced output to an unbalanced load, it is necessary to leave the cold output (pin-3) floating. Using an XLR connector, pin-3 should not be connected to anything. If a cable is used with pin-3 tied to pin-1 (shield), the output amplifier could be damaged. This type of connection establishes a low/no impedance path to ground. This means the amplifier will drain current, unimpeded, into ground, which is stressful to the output amplifier.

Connecting Unbalanced Outputs to Balanced Inputs

Unbalanced sources are very common, especially in consumer electronics (phono pre-amps, cassette decks, etc). Also, many keyboards, samplers, and other electronic sound sources have unbalanced outputs. When these devices need to be connected to a balanced input (such as the ADC1 USB), it is important to understand the proper method of cabling.

An unbalanced-to-balanced connection should use a 3-conductor (balanced) wire. The explanation behind this technique is somewhat complicated, and it is beyond the scope of this article. For an in-depth look at the technical explanation for this solution, read section 5.4, "Shield Wires", of The Clean Audio Installation Guide. ( http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/caig/ )

The connecting cable should have the cold signal conductor of the cable tied to ground at the source-side only (the unbalanced end of the cable). The load-side of the cable will be connected in a typical balanced configuration.

A more sophisticated connection may be needed for aggressive common-mode rejection, which may require modifying the equipment. For information about this type of setup, refer to the "Shield Wires" section (5.4) of The Clean Audio Installation Guide.

( http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/caig/ )

No wonder SVS just said NO to @th0m ’s inquiry.
 

waynel

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No wonder SVS just said NO to @th0m ’s inquiry.
Yeah, they don't want to deal with it and don't know which of the 3 cases applies to the source. Doesn't mean it can't be dealt with. We will get to the bottom of this shortly. I have a ticket in to get an answer from miniDSP and will have a unit in hand when they ship. (I'm guessing it's active balanced but just a guess now)
 

waynel

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Yeah, they don't want to deal with it and don't know which of the 3 cases applies to the source. Doesn't mean it can't be dealt with. We will get to the bottom of this shortly. I have a ticket in to get an answer from miniDSP and will have a unit in hand when they ship. (I'm guessing it's active balanced but just a guess now)
Well MiniDSP got back to me and suggested the following:

“Thanks for your interest in our products and for your patience.
We've passed this information to our engineers for confirmation. Base from our test, we typically use a Stereo TRS configured as such. We've never used Mono TRS so unsure at this time if that would behave the same way on the AP.. In the mean time, here is a great reference:
https://www.ranecommercial.com/kb_article.php?article=2107

Config 12 is what we use here.


Hoping this info helps and feel free to contact us if you have further questions.

Best Regards
miniDSP DevTeam”
 
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antcollinet

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Well MiniDSP got back to me and suggested the following:

“Thanks for your interest in our products and for your patience.
We've passed this information to our engineers for confirmation. Base from our test, we typically use a Stereo TRS configured as such. We've never used Mono TRS so unsure at this time if that would behave the same way on the AP.. In the mean time, here is a great reference:
https://www.ranecommercial.com/kb_article.php?article=2107

Config 12 is what we use here.


Hoping this info helps and feel free to contact us if you have further questions.

Best Regards
miniDSP DevTeam”
But based on the description of output stages above (Post 100 by @waynel) if the output stage is active without output impedance, config 12 will short out the cold active output to ground, and stress - or possibly kill - the output driver.
 

th0m

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But based on the description of output stages above (Post 100 by @waynel) if the output stage is active without output impedance, config 12 will short out the cold active output to ground, and stress - or possibly kill - the output driver.
The response I got from SVS when asking them to elaborate a little and said what specific source and sub I was planning on using was this:
Tying pins 1 & 3 together can cause distortion and also there is a 6 dB loss.

If you want to use the 3000 Micro, then I recommend using conventional RCA connections and to purchase the RCA version of the Flex.
 
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antcollinet

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Personally, I think I'd get the balanced version, and then accept a little extra cost and run to RCA via an active converter.

Something like this:
 

EB1000

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If it was BLDC upgradable, it would have been a great 2.2 solution. But just like all of minidsp products, Dirac is always limited to two channels and upstream processing, which cannot compensate for subwoofer phase issues.
 

th0m

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Personally, I think I'd get the balanced version, and then accept a little extra cost and run to RCA via an active converter.

Something like this:
Yes, either that or bite the bullet and get an SHD. Would prefer to get a Flex and a second sub rather than an SHD though. Are there any ready-made active converters like this available as a complete separate box or only as diy-boards?

Tom Christiansen offered to build one for me using his universal buffer, but it would be cheaper to just get the SHD ;)
 

antcollinet

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.... Are there any ready-made active converters like this available as a complete separate box or only as diy-boards?....
Not that I've been able to find.
 

abdo123

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If it was BLDC upgradable, it would have been a great 2.2 solution. But just like all of minidsp products, Dirac is always limited to two channels and upstream processing, which cannot compensate for subwoofer phase issues.
It can, but it can only do so for one locaiton. I do it all the time with my DDRC-24.

DLBC is relevant because it calculates an 'average phase' in the crossover region over multiple seats, which is relevant in home theater.
 

th0m

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Not that I've been able to find.
I found this:
No idea about the quality though.
 
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Hello,

As the Flex line lacks Volumio, I ask if this new line is Roon Ready or not. Any help is welcome.
 

waynel

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But based on the description of output stages above (Post 100 by @waynel) if the output stage is active without output impedance, config 12 will short out the cold active output to ground, and stress - or possibly kill - the output driver.
It sounds like the output stage is cross coupled so it should be fine to ground the ring. Also in their response MiniDSP said they checked with their engineers and measured it using this configuration. I still think there will be no problem using a simple cable (connected like #12 in the Rane guide)

Wayne
 

rcstevensonaz

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As the Flex line lacks Volumio...
Personally, I'd replace the word "lacks" with the phrase "the feature set does not include". For me, the Flex is not "lacking" in their choice to not include network streamer (such as Volumio); rather, I would personally have no interest in the product if it did (which is why I would never buy a miniDSP SHD). While others might opt for one of their "all-in-one" products that includes Network Streamer software support.

Now, to also rephrase your question slightly and break it into two parts (the first one has already been answered):
  • Can the Flex function as a network streamer (e.g. Run Volumio, Roon Core)?
  • Can the Flex be a network end-point target (e.g. Airplay 2, Roon RAAT, Spotify Connect, etc.)?
Looking at the specifications, the only audio sources the Flex supports are analog connections (RCA/TRS), digital connections (optical, coax), and Bluetooth. Based on that, it appears the answer to the second question is also "No". Perhaps a future version will add support for network audio source (WiFi / LAN).
 
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