Minidsp DDRC-88A Dirac Multichannel DSP Review

[tonybarrett]

Okay so if I have understood right, you have the source as the Oppo and no PC. So its, Oppo> AVR or multichannel DAC> speakers and you want to add DSP.

But there has to be a way you can connect a PC to the source or into your AVR and from there you can use a software DSP.

I personally would go down this route rather than adding something else in the chain, I mean you could the harm is little just there is a better option which is software DSP. And if your worried about the silent PC thing it's easy to make a silent PC, I have a standard fan based PC and you can hardly hear it.

I have a NADC510 and have HDMI out which connects into the TV allowing me to use the comp on my television. You can do this on AVR's as well, point being connecting a PC into the chain must be possible.

Thanks. It’s Oppo as pre-pro, RCA input to DDRC-88a, balanced output to Nord 5x500w per channel (maybe overkill), speakers/active sub

 

[Trdat]

No he means Oppo to miniDSP DDRC-88A to speaker amps. Which is the latter use case that I mentioned.

Yeh so without an AVR your stuck without a PC. I get the dilemma. Hence the need for hardware implementation of DSP.

Thanks. It’s Oppo as pre-pro, RCA input to DDRC-88a, balanced output to Nord 5x500w per channel (maybe overkill), speakers/active sub

You have HDMI in and out on your Oppo if I saw right. Just add a PC, chuck the comp at the back till you build a silent one.

 

[tonybarrett]

Yeh so without an AVR your stuck without a PC. I get the dilemma. Hence the need for hardware implementation of DSP.


You have HDMI in and out on your Oppo if I saw right. Just add a PC, chuck the comp at the back till you build a silent one.

Thanks for the suggestion. Will look into it

 

[Vasr]

Yeh so without an AVR your stuck without a PC. I get the dilemma. Hence the need for hardware implementation of DSP.

You have HDMI in and out on your Oppo if I saw right. Just add a PC, chuck the comp at the back till you build a silent one.

I admire your evangelism for the "software DSP" religion. But I don't think you are familiar with or have through through how this would work in a chain. My guess is that your experience is only with sources played from the PC via its software DSP (this is what I do with my set up) and likely with just two channel. Because things are a bit difficult when it comes to making a PC the recipient of a audio source (to use the software DSP inside a PC)

The problem as I have posted earlier is the lack of multi-channel receiver cards for a PC. There are no HDMI-in cards available for a PC. Any audio device configured as an input device in Windows PC (past Windows XP) is max 2 channels. So you would need something with ASIO-driver capable source to get multi-channel audio into the PC. You can do this with a pro-audio interface (PCIe or external like the Motu ultralite) but those are expensive ways to do so.

You can also do Dirac on the PC as I have documented in another thread for my setup but that also costs money.

Getting the output of the processed sound out of the PC is trivial. But to insert a PC based EQ into a chain you need to get it into the PC somehow.

Software DSP is great but it has limitations on where you can use it. You shouldn't mislead people into wasting their time chasing things that are not feasible with an evangelic fervor.

 

[jhaider]

I am surprised we don’t hear more from their new MiniDSP Power.
The Nad M10 shares the same features, if I am not mistaken, but is more expensive. And yet the MiniDSP went under the radar of the press and of specialists such as @SIY who said that the Nad was a new generation amp.

NAD M10 has been out for a while. MiniDSP SHD Power was announced about a quarter ago.

 

[somebodyelse]

There are no HDMI-in cards available for a PC.

That needs some qualification. There are loads of HDMI capture cards, both PCI-e and USB, with varying prices and capabilities, starting with those marketed for game capture and streaming, and going up to pro-level devices. The problem is that the consumer-level ones aren't meant to be able to decode HDCP which the signal you want to capture may well be wrapped in (although some allegedly do), and they may well not support the multichannel audio format you want. The pro-level interfaces and software may well do it, but like the pro-audio interfaces they're expensive.

 

[Vasr]

That needs some qualification. There are loads of HDMI capture cards, both PCI-e and USB, with varying prices and capabilities, starting with those marketed for game capture and streaming, and going up to pro-level devices. The problem is that the consumer-level ones aren't meant to be able to decode HDCP which the signal you want to capture may well be wrapped in (although some allegedly do), and they may well not support the multichannel audio format you want. The pro-level interfaces and software may well do it, but like the pro-audio interfaces they're expensive.

You are right. I took a look at these a while ago. Almost all of them are geared towards video capture and at best 2 channel audio. So won't apply here.

HDCP isn't an encryption scheme, so anyone in theory can extract the audio as it exists in the stream. Most of the audio players like the Oppo that can output audio over HDMI, don't use HDCP. But, if you are getting that out of a player that is doing video with DRM, it would require a HDMI receiver with HDCP and the licensing of that would not let you extract hi-res audio in digital format bit perfect.

Outside of pro-audio, there is no market for HDMI-in multi-channel into a PC. The technology itself isn't the barrier.

If you can find a PCIe card that can extract multi-channel digital audio from a HDMI, they would either be violating the licensing or doing a down-conversion to stereo or not work with licensed HDMI out devices.

 

[kevinh]

Except you need the $325 USB to AES dongle to just connect it inline between the original USB multi-channel source and the Okto unless you have a multi-channel AES output source as your use case. Not many in this world. A $40 USB transceiver inside the DDRD-88D would have solved this ... but no this is miniDSP!

I believe this is incorrect the DDRC-88C has an 8 channel AES-EBU output and the Octo Research 8 Pro has an 8 channel AES-EBU input

https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88d

https://www.oktoresearch.com/dac8pro.htm

 

[Vasr]

I believe this is incorrect the DDRC-88C has an 8 channel AES-EBU output and the Octo Research 8 Pro has an 8 channel AES-EBU input

https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88d

https://www.oktoresearch.com/dac8pro.htm

To get the upstream source with USB into the DDRC-88. There aren't many consumer audio equipment with multi-channel AES out. USB at best. So you need a USB to AES dongle to send it to the DDRC-88D not to connect its out to the Okto. The USB on the DDRC-88D cannot be used for signal, only for configuration.

 

[voodooless]

You’ll need something like this: http://www.arvus.io/h2-udma.html it’s not very cheap though..

 

[kevinh]

To get the upstream source with USB into the DDRC-88. There aren't many consumer audio equipment with multi-channel AES out. USB at best. So you need a USB to AES dongle to send it to the DDRC-88D not to connect its out to the Okto. The USB on the DDRC-88D cannot be used for signal, only for configuration.

Not if you are doing 2 ch source, ie 2 mains bi amped for example plus multi subs.

 

[Vasr]

You’ll need something like this: http://www.arvus.io/h2-udma.html it’s not very cheap though..

No kidding!

Wouldn't work with any HDCP-compliant sources though. Ok for ripped content. But then if you had ripped content you wouldn't need to get HDMI sources into a computer. You would just play the ripped content through the computer instead.

 

[Vasr]

Not if you are doing 2 ch source, ie 2 mains bi amped for example plus multi subs.

You still need some dongle or adapter to get from your source into the DDRC-8D unless you have a source only doing 2 channel and outputting AES itself. For that special case, sure. But that wasn't your original comment on the output.

My comment was in the context of doing multi-channel Dirac as a box in the middle.

 

[Ro808]

As regards measured performance, this thing is crunched by a proper professional DSP system.
Even if the latter is more than 10 years old and available on the used market for a few hundred quid.

Imho, any DSP box without digital inputs is pretty much useless for high quality audio (re)production at home, or in the studio.

 

[Nivag123]

Hello, I'm a long time lurker and had originally considered the ddrc88a or equivalent for my dsp. In the end I went with the CDSP 8x12 V2 which I am extremely happy with. It had bees recently updated with better dacs due to a noise issue, and currently uses Akm 4456 x2 for the 12 ch outputs. Yes, 12 channels! This appears to give it the 2nd best dacs in the minidsp line up after the SHD series.
Dirac live was also recently implemented, at an extra software cost.

The main reason I got this over the DDRC was the availability of digital coax/spdif inputs in addition to 6 analog inputs.

I use this for my 3 way active mains (6 channels output) which do double duty for HT and Stereo. I also feed my 4 ch of subs and 1 channel bass shaker through it.

In stereo, I use spdif input via a topping D10 from laptop, and I can run 3 way active stereo with as many subs as I like.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/c-dsp-8x12

I read many earlier comments lamenting the lack of digital inputs in the ddrc88a, and it seems this CDSP may have been overlooked due to its car audio roots.
Hope this is useful. Cheers!

 

[Vasr]

Hello, I'm a long time lurker and had originally considered the ddrc88a or equivalent for my dsp. In the end I went with the CDSP 8x12 V2 which I am extremely happy with. It had bees recently updated with better dacs due to a noise issue, and currently uses Akm 4456 x2 for the 12 ch outputs. Yes, 12 channels! This appears to give it the 2nd best dacs in the minidsp line up after the SHD series.
Dirac live was also recently implemented, at an extra software cost.

The main reason I got this over the DDRC was the availability of digital coax/spdif inputs in addition to 6 analog inputs.

I use this for my 3 way active mains (6 channels output) which do double duty for HT and Stereo. I also feed my 4 ch of subs and 1 channel bass shaker through it.

In stereo, I use spdif input via a topping D10 from laptop, and I can run 3 way active stereo with as many subs as I like.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/car-audio-dsp/c-dsp-8x12

I read many earlier comments lamenting the lack of digital inputs in the ddrc88a, and it seems this CDSP may have been overlooked due to its car audio roots.
Hope this is useful. Cheers!

Digital input is 2-ch only. There is always a catch with miniDSP for mainstream use (as opposed to edge case project uses like multi-amp, multi-driver, blah, blah, etc).

 

[Newman]

You’ll need something like this: http://www.arvus.io/h2-udma.html it’s not very cheap though..

I once peered into that dark alley and shuddered. I could just make out something moving in the gloom. I think it had horns. I thought the better of it.

 

[voodooless]

Wouldn't work with any HDCP-compliant sources though. Ok for ripped content. But then if you had ripped content you wouldn't need to get HDMI sources into a computer. You would just play the ripped content through the computer instead.

It only works for non HDCP stuff? That indeed makes it totally useless.. If you have ripped stuff, your PC already has acces to the data anyway

 

[Newman]

That’s the issue

 

[tonybarrett]

Well that was a heck of a scenic route to square one