Minidsp DDRC-88A Dirac Multichannel DSP Review

[Soundstage]

I could be wrong but my feeling is that miniDSP will no longer update the pre-SHD devices going forward. They have been EOLing them one at a time rather than make any improvements.

With the SHD, they seem to have transitioned from a "productized DIY gizmo factory" that is always only 80-90% complete to an almost 100% stand-alone vertical SHD series products where they do all the work needed in the last mile. A bit up in the vertical chain from the DAC-based shops (Topping, SMSL, Schiit, etc) where they can leverage their DSP expertise to provide more feature-rich products.

This, to me, suggests a change of mindset/management (for the good in my opinion). But it could also mean end of those DIY type boxes (where absolute performance is not the primary goal) that could be used by the technically savvy and with no alternatives.

I am surprised we don’t hear more from their new MiniDSP Power.
The Nad M10 shares the same features, if I am not mistaken, but is more expensive. And yet the MiniDSP went under the radar of the press and of specialists such as @SIY who said that the Nad was a new generation amp.

 

[stunta]

Channels 1&2 uses different A/D. Channel 1 also has other hardware "issues" in it's buffer stage and it has buzzing noise peaks that you can hear with some setups. You should remap input 1 to subwoofer usage (and also use input 2 for something else than main channels). In my system I left 1&2 unused. On the AVS forum MiniDSP finally admitted that the buzzing is a hardware issue and they are looking into fixing it, but went completely silent after that...

Are these the input or output channels?

 

[Vasr]

I am surprised we don’t hear more from their new MiniDSP Power.
The Nad M10 shares the same features, if I am not mistaken, but is more expensive. And yet the MiniDSP went under the radar of the press and of specialists such as @SIY who said that the Nad was a new generation amp.

I think miniDSP can beat the pants off of NAD in a comparable niche product like a network streamer for much cheaper. But what they do not have is the marketing clout, experience or cachet of NAD and that has a cascading effect on press coverage, reception, market penetration and general perception.

They would do much better if they partnered with a US brand to do an ODM arrangement. For example, putting a variant of it out as part of Monoprice Monolith brand would get a lot more volume of sales to make up for lost margins. But they should also be talking to audio companies that are falling way behind in technology with no in-house expertise for the new devices with a lot of software involved - Parasound, for example.

 

[HerbertWest]

Now, I am lost. Why would you connect the DDRD-88 to a Okto. Your Okto provides the multichannel requirement that connects straight to the PC which then you could use a software DSP. Am I missing something?

As side note, for a stereo system with active crossover, the miniDSP nanoDIGI could be a cheaper source to feed an Okto than a DDRC-88D if Dirac is not required (or anyway happening "upstream"). nanoDIGI should also be 96 kHz internally.

 

[Newman]

nanoDIGI is 2x8 though

 

[RayDunzl]

I would be much more interested in IIR software than any of those FIR programs that you are mentioning. FIR is bad news.

What's makes FIR "bad news" for you??

 

[Newman]

Too much risk of the inevitable artefacts being audible. Unlike IIR, where the phase artefacts are generally proven with psychoacoustics and audio research listening experiments to be inaudible.

 

[TimoJ]

Are these the input or output channels?

Input. No need to change outputs if you use routing, just change input connections and routing.

 

[Trdat]

As side note, for a stereo system with active crossover, the miniDSP nanoDIGI could be a cheaper source to feed an Okto than a DDRC-88D if Dirac is not required (or anyway happening "upstream"). nanoDIGI should also be 96 kHz internally.

I don't think I ever have expressed my discontent with any opinions on this forum and rarely am I antagonistic, so please don't bite my head off and this comment isn't specifically to you, it is for the general consensus on anyone who has brainstormed the idea of adding a DSP device into the chain.

I am totally lost to why anyone would in their right mind add anything in the chain with an Okto, even if it did measure okay, a third device in the chain can add noise and with both the minidsp and the DDRC measuring unsatisfactorily you have the loss of some hefty SINAD.

I am not a sales rep for software DSP but its the logical progression for anyone who is keen on DSP or is educated enough to be on this forum. I mean that is the set up, either AVR which houses internal DSP or a multichannel DAC opting out for software DSP, you don't add another device to get DSP when you can just get a software version. Unless I have totally misunderstood something or a function or feature but I am confident that all these devices are nothing compared to what a software DSP can do. Software DSP is like the Formula 1 of DSP around 10 to 15 years more advanced than rocket science. (Perhaps a bold exaggeration to prove my point)

 

[stunta]

I am all for using software on a PC for DSP. How will I make it work with my multitude of sources - Roon, xbox, amazon fire stick, turntable, etc. and how do I get it to decode Dolby or DTS stuff? I want an easy to use solution that works from my sofa with a remote control.

 

[Newman]

@Trdat I am not sure what do you think the mini DSP is:

• A PC provides software DSP
• An AVR provides software DSP
• The mini DSP provides software DSP

You give the impression that you were not aware that the mini DSP is a software DSP device.

You are not sure why anyone would want to consider the mini DSP? Here are some reasons:

• For anyone with an older 5.1 or 7.1 receiver, this device can provide them with Dirac room correction.
• For anyone using a multi channel audio source such as an Oppo or other universal disc player, this device will allow Dirac room correction and parametric equalization with no AVR.

 

[voodooless]

@Trdat
You give the impression that you were not aware that the mini DSP is a software DSP device.

Well, it depends a bit on the definition, but it’s not really. The DSP engine itself is a dedicated hardware part running the DSP code. It can do that many times more efficiently than a general purpose CPU like the one in your computer or phone. Various parts of that device aren’t even software dependent. Things like sample rate converters are full hardware implementations.

 

[Trdat]

I am not sure what do you think the mini DSP is:

• A PC provides software DSP
• An AVR provides software DSP
• The mini DSP provides software DSP

Well, don't totally agree unless we need to clarify what software DSP is. An AVR is a device in which you control the DSP via hardware.
The minidsp although technically yes a software, but your essentially adding a device in the chain which makes it hardware.

You give the impression that you were not aware that the mini DSP is a software DSP device.

I am totally aware that the minidsp is controlled by software on the computer and that it is designed for the control from a PC but the adding of a device considers this set up as a hardware DSP. You need the hardware to perform crossover capabilities.

You are not sure why anyone would want to consider the mini DSP? Here are some reasons:

• For anyone with an older 5.1 or 7.1 receiver, this device can provide them with Dirac room correction.
• For anyone using a multi channel audio source such as an Oppo or other universal disc player, this device will allow Dirac room correction and parametric equalization.

This makes a lot more sense, and it is a little out of my sphere as I dont use the above options. So what you're saying is that there is no way you can add say a software DSP like Audiolense or Acurate to a setup that is not computer based? Are these options above you mention often without a PC?

But if they do have a PC then again, an option of a computer based Dirac, Audiolense or Acurate will be a significantly better option than adding a minidsp or hardware option of DSP.

Minidsp is 200 bux double it and you get software DSP. I've used minidsp it sounds horrible.

 

[Trdat]

I am all for using software on a PC for DSP. How will I make it work with my multitude of sources - Roon, xbox, amazon fire stick, turntable, etc. and how do I get it to decode Dolby or DTS stuff? I want an easy to use solution that works from my sofa with a remote control.

I am not versed on the multitude of sources you mention but there is a way to route the convolution to be used when using other programs on the PC outside your main music platform. Jriver has this option I am sure Roon has it as well. I'll have to find it and link it in.

Software DSP does not decode any formats that is the unfortunate reality of this option. Its either a pristine multichannel DAC with no decoding or an AVR with horrible SINAD with decoding option.(Although this is changing in light of recent measurements of Denon AVR's)

Jriver has an option for surround decoding can't vouch for it. But it ultimately comes down to what your using it for, I don't need decoding I only use multichannel for bi or tri amping and opt for the software DSP so I can chose my prefered DAC.

If you need surround decoding options than it does become a very difficult decision. I wanted to try a surround system, so the only affordable option was a used Marantz Pre amp and the sound quality was not up to par so I reverted back to stereo. I think matching a 5.1 system to a stereo set up with the same quality will cost perhaps up to 10 times more.

 

[tonybarrett]

@Trdat I am not sure what do you think the mini DSP is:

• A PC provides software DSP
• An AVR provides software DSP
• The mini DSP provides software DSP

You give the impression that you were not aware that the mini DSP is a software DSP device.

You are not sure why anyone would want to consider the mini DSP? Here are some reasons:

• For anyone with an older 5.1 or 7.1 receiver, this device can provide them with Dirac room correction.
• For anyone using a multi channel audio source such as an Oppo or other universal disc player, this device will allow Dirac room correction and parametric equalization with no AVR.

The latter, Oppo set up, for 5.1 is exactly my case.

 

[Trdat]

I am all for using software on a PC for DSP. How will I make it work with my multitude of sources - Roon, xbox, amazon fire stick, turntable, etc. and how do I get it to decode Dolby or DTS stuff? I want an easy to use solution that works from my sofa with a remote control.

Here you go.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WDM_Driver its for Jriver but it will give you the concept.

Some interesting threads you might want to delve into.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-and-understanding-some-basic-concepts.11346/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...barnetts-new-calibration-service.10212/page-3

I am sure there is more but as I have participated in these two there the two I know.

Also, check out Mitch's articles on audiophile style.

 

[Chromatischism]

This unit was released at a time when there were no AVRs with Dirac, so that was the use case.

I've used minidsp it sounds horrible.

Not sure what you were doing with it, but it doesn't have an effect on sound quality.

 

[Trdat]

The latter, Oppo set up, for 5.1 is exactly my case.

Okay so if I have understood right, you have the source as the Oppo and no PC. So its, Oppo> AVR or multichannel DAC> speakers and you want to add DSP.

But there has to be a way you can connect a PC to the source or into your AVR and from there you can use a software DSP.

I personally would go down this route rather than adding something else in the chain, I mean you could the harm is little just there is a better option which is software DSP. And if your worried about the silent PC thing it's easy to make a silent PC, I have a standard fan based PC and you can hardly hear it.

I have a NADC510 and have HDMI out which connects into the TV allowing me to use the comp on my television. You can do this on AVR's as well, point being connecting a PC into the chain must be possible.

 

[Newman]

No he means Oppo to miniDSP DDRC-88A to speaker amps. Which is the latter use case that I mentioned.

 

[Francis Vaughan]

In theory, yes. They would certainly have good experience to do so technically. But then they have not had to deal with the full messiness of HDMI with video pass-through (HDCP, arc/eARC/CEC, etc). That has sunk a lot of boats before.

The right answer would be to make a box that has exactly no HDMI switching. There is zero need. All it need do is implement eARC, maybe not even that, and perhaps have an output that provides a GUI that could be routed to a display (or better, combined to from an OSD, but leave actual overly generation to an external device.) All it actually needs to do is suck sound over HDMI. Then work with a company that knows how to make a proper sensible HDMI unit that can do everything else. The obvious answer there would be HD-Fury. They make a point of being able to manage difficult HDMI. I use an HD-Fury Diva. It outputs a black 1080p HDMI that only contains the sound. That connects to my AVR. The AVR doesn't see video at all. The only think that makes the Diva less than a perfect solution right now is its limited number of inputs (although for my use I don't have a problem.)
This disconnects the video from the sound. Which seems to be one thing that the current AVR cartel don't want to happen. They partly depend upon upgrades in the video format to force you to buy an entire new AVR.
Heck, miniDSP could think seriously about adding Dante support. Indeed they could seriously think about using Dante as an inter-box connection system. Who would be interested in a miniDSP AV decoder box than can connect to a set of miniDSP digital crossovers? DIY totally over the top active speakers for 7.1.6 plus a pile of subs?
The trouble is that the software licensing costs would probably be so bad from all the players that it still remains silly money. Which is the heart of the problem.