OP
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Measure your C50 in REW and tell us how your bass sounds!
- Thread starter Tim Link
- Start date
STC
Active Member
Despite been using REW since around 2008, I never understood the measurements nor it correlates with what I hear in the room. I have clean bass but measurements always showing a bump. I just don’t know how to measure because all sound is accompanied by a trailing sound delayed by less than 100 μs which is inverted ( for crosstalk cancellation) so I just do not know how to measure correctly as I cannot use the standard method. The ears process the simultaneous in and out of phase differently compared to the mic, I think.
I also realized that I use external method to record and the recorded file was automatically normalized. The input was 24/96 format and the output was 24/44.1 format. I think this also would have made huge difference with the accuracy of the measurement.
ozzy9832001
Senior Member
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- Feb 19, 2023
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A bump as in a boost in the FR?
We perceive low frequencies different than the mids. So, a bump may just be making it sound as loud as the rest of the mids. My bass is typically about 6dB higher @ 83dB. It is closer to 10dB higher when the volume is turned down. So at 70dB from 120hz and below, I perceive to be about as loud as 60dB in the mids.
STC
Active Member
Using standard measurement it was pretty flat as the room is heavily damped with 1 foot thick wall made of 4 inch brick, 4 inch void and 4 inch rockwool. But I guess the Sound Lab dipole speakers and large surface area confuses the measurement. I never understood.
Here is my contribution, right on topic of what @Tim Link was looking for.
3 way DIY speakers "Saisho" (introduced and compared to KH310 in here: #1,089)
4m * 5m room, acoustically treated (not perfect yet, on the dead side)
Position adjusted to minimize room modes and optimize Impulse Response.
2.2m measuring distance, at listening position.
Clarity is very high, hovering between 30dB and 35dB.
Subjectively, the bass sounds extremely good: punchier, deeper, cleaner, more textured than on my HD58x headphones.
See more data of the same measurement:
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Interestingly, the exact same speaker measured in my living room gives a much lower clarity:
Subjectively, the low bass sounds muddy, but this can easily be explained by the strong room mode at 42Hz (see waterfall).
Lower clarity was expected because the decay energy/time is very different:
3 way DIY speakers "Saisho" (introduced and compared to KH310 in here: #1,089)
4m * 5m room, acoustically treated (not perfect yet, on the dead side)
Position adjusted to minimize room modes and optimize Impulse Response.
2.2m measuring distance, at listening position.
Clarity is very high, hovering between 30dB and 35dB.
Subjectively, the bass sounds extremely good: punchier, deeper, cleaner, more textured than on my HD58x headphones.
See more data of the same measurement:
-----
Interestingly, the exact same speaker measured in my living room gives a much lower clarity:
Subjectively, the low bass sounds muddy, but this can easily be explained by the strong room mode at 42Hz (see waterfall).
Lower clarity was expected because the decay energy/time is very different:
Last edited:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #107
Both of those rooms look really good. The early decay time in both rooms is super low even in the bass. The RT60 down at 100 in the lab is considered lower than what I've been told is recommended. I wonder if a room like that could use some artificial ambience to bring up the RT60 in the mids and highs without bringing up the early decay time. I think it's otherwise hard to do without a really big room. I just added some delayed ambient side channels to my setup and I'm really liking it. Just two delayed side channels right now. I'm thinking of adding more if I can figure out where to put them.
Do you have pictures of those spaces?
I wonder why you want to use artificial ambience?
I also have low RT60 and I love it.
Well, those are the result of careful speaker/listener positioning.
Earlier setups did not measure that well, and in both cases, the sweet spot is quite narrow, due to both room modes and reflections.
Sorry, difficult to share pictures without confidentiality issues. (work & private)
Actually, in the lab, I would ideally like to have faster decay in the lows, and more constant RT60 across frequencies. Below 0.1s is indeed not recommended, but sounds great to me
. My speakers were also designed to have an extremely fast attack & decay, so I guess that a low RT60 further highlight this strentgh.Adding diffraction did not have a big impact, so I'll try other things.
My living room has a lot of glass windows, and the listening spot is not symmetrical.
It definitely sounds a lot better in the lab, I am not really convinced that there's such a thin as an overly dead/damp room.
Now, that's an impressively good RT60!I also have low RT60 and I love it.
I also would not try to add delayed ambient speakers.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #110
You may not want to. It's a preference thing. With a standard two speaker arrangement it is found by some to not light up the ears from enough different angles to be satisfying. The problem is the early ambience like you get in a small room tends to be too soon, ruining imaging and clarity. A little more delay and the ambience can have a nice, open effect without messing up the imaging and clarity. But - I think it will always sound purer if you listen in a relatively anechoic environment. So it really depends on what you like. Most people would like a little room ambience. In a really low RT60 room with artificial ambience you can add it as you see fit, with adequate time delay.
What I'm doing is not really so much ambience as just a kicker signal, no reverb effects added, just a reinforcing kicker that I think does something nice. I tried adding reverb effects and playing around with mixing surround processing effects. I didn't hear anything I liked with any of that.
Hi, here is my contribution.
Nearfield setup in home office room for pleasure listening, 2x Neumann KH80 + KH 750 Subwoofer
Small room 410 x 280cm, tiled floor
Some treatment from GIK. 2 DIY Helmholtz resonators, 1cm felt mat on the desk against comb filter.
Optimized by Neumann MA 1 Software
Listening distance about 110cm
The bass sounds very good, but I think there is still room for improvment.
Left speaker
Right speaker
Impulse left
Impulse right
Nearfield setup in home office room for pleasure listening, 2x Neumann KH80 + KH 750 Subwoofer
Small room 410 x 280cm, tiled floor
Some treatment from GIK. 2 DIY Helmholtz resonators, 1cm felt mat on the desk against comb filter.
Optimized by Neumann MA 1 Software
Listening distance about 110cm
The bass sounds very good, but I think there is still room for improvment.
Left speaker
Right speaker
Impulse left
Impulse right
So you measure 110 cm from the speaker?
ernestcarl
Major Contributor
OP
- Thread Starter
- #116
Exemplary measurements. And that's what can be great about being close to the speakers, as well as using excellent speakers and software in conjunction with acoustic treatments. In my larger room at longer listening distances I'm happy to just not drop below 10 dB over most the range.
At that distance I guess you are mainly measure the speaker and not the room.
Nice measurements.
Unfortunately, this is only half the truth. The statement may be true above the schroeder frequency, but the bass region had to be optimized for a very long time with the absorbers and the helmholtz resonators until the result looked like this. It was definitely not plug&play. The subwoofer is also further away from the MLP than the monitors.
I agree. I can see the difference in my room between 470 cm from the speaker and 200 cm from the speaker, above around 500Hz.
Measure your C50 in REW and tell us how your bass sounds!
100%. Room modes at 105, 120 and 140. Creates a gigantic mess with the fundamentals and the harmonics. Mid bass was a mess. Takes many, many very thick traps to get it under control and even then, still not even close to where I'd like it. Keep in mind, that we do not hear with the ears, but...
audiosciencereview.com
I looked at your post and the numbers are impressive for a living room.I agree. I can see the difference in my room between 470 cm from the speaker and 200 cm from the speaker, above around 500Hz.
Measure your C50 in REW and tell us how your bass sounds!
100%. Room modes at 105, 120 and 140. Creates a gigantic mess with the fundamentals and the harmonics. Mid bass was a mess. Takes many, many very thick traps to get it under control and even then, still not even close to where I'd like it. Keep in mind, that we do not hear with the ears, but...
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