A perfect example of how Audyssey (without the app) sounds terrible. Even after all these years, they wrongly try to produce a flat in-room response. It boggles my mind.
Limiting the correction range is possible with the mobile app.
A perfect example of how Audyssey (without the app) sounds terrible. Even after all these years, they wrongly try to produce a flat in-room response. It boggles my mind.
Limiting the correction range is possible with the mobile app.
And how would I easily up-sample all my content (music and movies)? I shouldn't have to spend extra money or effort to bypass Marantz's poor decisions.
The AV8801 is a really nice unit IMO.
Did you notice that Denon returned to the TI PCM1795 DAC IC that is used in the AV8801 for their 110th anniversary DCD-A110. The move away from the current output PCM1795 in the AV8802 and AV8805 was likely based on cost savings, not quality, since a current output DAC costs more to implement properly than the AKM DAC IC. With AKM's inability to deliver product perhaps we'll see the PCM1795 again! (Doubtful)
Yep, those who continue to bash Audyssey haven't use the App or Rat or just choose to ignore it and enjoy beating a dead horse. The OTB Audyssey was built for the JoeSixpack HT user and designed with ease of use in mind. It works and sounds just fine under those conditions for those folks. The more demanding user has two more stages of complexity to scale if he so chooses. At those levels it's as good as any other "mid-level" DRC system (DiracLive, ARC, Yamahahaha). Later if your a real audiophile you'll get a serious DRC piece of software like AcourateDRC, Sonarworks, Raw files in REW, Dirac Full, and the rest. Bottom line is Audyssey has matured into a very good piece of software for the user willing to go under the hood.If I use the App/Rat, I could have flatten the 20-120 Hz easily to almost flat, say about +/- 1.5 dB no smoothing, or +/- 1 dB with 1/12 smoothing.
Yep, those who continue to bash Audyssey haven't use the App or Rat or just choose to ignore it and enjoy beating a dead horse. The OTB Audyssey was built for the JoeSixpack HT user and designed with ease of use in mind. It works and sounds just fine under those conditions for those folks. The more demanding user has two more stages of complexity to scale if he so chooses. At those levels it's as good as any other "mid-level" DRC system (DiracLive, ARC, Yamahahaha). Later if your a real audiophile you'll get a serious DRC piece of software like AcourateDRC, Sonarworks, Raw files in REW, Dirac Full, and the rest. Bottom line is Audyssey has matured into a very good piece of software for the user willing to go under the hood.
Preference - no, opinion - yes. There are some well educated and knowledgeable people working at Audyssey making the decisions, not a bunch of dummies. Your entitled to yours, them to theirs.The problem is that Audyssey plain-and-simple uses the wrong target. A flat in-room response is black-and-white WRONG, not simply a matter of preference.
Works just fine for meI've always had to manually play with the subwoofer distance setting to get better integration at the crossover.
But what did you do to fix the missing dual subwoofer feature, not available in Dirac till just this year, at an extra cost?Audyssey can sound just fine if the App is used to fix the inherent flaws
Preference - no, opinion - yes. There are some well educated and knowledgeable people working at Audyssey making the decisions, not a bunch of dummies. Your entitled to yours, them to theirs.
Works just fine for me
But what did you do to fix the missing dual subwoofer feature, not available in Dirac till just this year, at an extra cost?
The problem is that Audyssey plain-and-simple uses the wrong target. A flat in-room response is black-and-white WRONG, not simply a matter of preference. As I said above, the App is the only thing that makes Audyssey acceptable -- most "JoeSixpack" users just turn up the sub channel by several dB as a rough fix.
At least ARC and Dirac use a default target that is much more appropriate, even without user intervention.
Preference - no, opinion - yes. There are some well educated and knowledgeable people working at Audyssey making the decisions, not a bunch of dummies. Your entitled to yours, them to theirs.
Not personal at all, I simply acknowledge that the designers have much more knowledge in the area than I and most likely you, although I see you don't agree.Your responses seem to be coming from a place of personal affront...my criticisms of the system aren't personal criticisms of you, they are factually valid flaws in the Audyssey room correction algorithm.
Don't know where your 99+% number came from, did you do a survey of a large sample of Audyssey users settings? But in any case, yea, when given an option a large number of users will crank up the bass a bit, because they like it, not because of any component or speaker designers err in design. That truth goes back to the earliest days of HiFi with tone controls and loudness buttons.Why do 99+% of Audyssey users jack up the subwoofer channel by several dB?
Humm, the NS-10 is probably the most widely used mixing console speaker in the world, I guess the mixing engineers have no idea what they're doing either? What you find "horrific" they find revealing and accurate.And well-educated people can be knowledgeable in some areas and ignorant in others or simply make poor decisions. Yamaha designed the NS-10 to have a flat power response instead of a flat anechoic response, which is why they are horrific-sounding speakers. How could a company like Yamaha make such a colossal error?
The problem is that Audyssey plain-and-simple uses the wrong target. A flat in-room response is black-and-white WRONG, not simply a matter of preference. As I said above, the App is the only thing that makes Audyssey acceptable -- most "JoeSixpack" users just turn up the sub channel by several dB as a rough fix.
At least ARC and Dirac use a default target that is much more appropriate, even without user intervention.
Audyssey can sound just fine if the App is used to fix the inherent flaws, although I've always had to manually play with the subwoofer distance setting to get better integration at the crossover.
Audyssey LabsDecember 31, 2009 18:31
Contrary to popular belief, a target curve that is flat from 20 Hz to 20 kHz is not always the one that will produce the correct sound. There are several reasons for this including the fact that loudspeakers are much more directional at high frequencies than they are at low frequencies. This means that the balance of direct and room sound is very different at the high and low ends of the frequency spectrum.
The Audyssey Reference target curve setting (also called Movie in some products) makes the appropriate correction at high frequencies to alleviate this problem. A slight roll-off is introduced that restores the balance between direct and reflected sound.
Not personal at all, I simply acknowledge that the designers have much more knowledge in the area than I and most likely you, although I see you don't agree.
Don't know where your 99+% number came from, did you do a survey of a large sample of Audyssey users settings? But in any case, yea, when given an option a large number of users will crank up the bass a bit, because they like it, not because of any component or speaker designers err in design. That truth goes back to the earliest days of HiFi with tone controls and loudness buttons.
Humm, the NS-10 is probably the most widely used mixing console speaker in the world, I guess the mixing engineers have no idea what they're doing either? What you find "horrific" they find revealing and accurate.
When it comes to these midlevel semi-auto DRC systems, they all have their weak and strong points and the users all have their preferences in sound. When left to do their own thing you will end up with the decisions made by the designers. You then have the choice to live with it or modify it to your preference depending on the tuning tools given.
On the LF side, I would agree with Sal1950 that flat or slope is a matter of personal preference/opinions.
It is not a "fact" that flat 20 to say 300 Hz is wrong, in fact in a large well designed concert hall or outdoor, the flatness would be similar to measurements in an anechoic chamber too.
Just because studies found most people prefer the sound of a sloped response towards the low end does not make it a "right" as such. Some may prefer a more steep slope than others too, so it is hard to call it right, or wrong or in between.
I'm not talking about preference, I'm talking about the real physical response of a speaker in a listening room.
Well, we are talking about small room acoustics, not concert halls or outdoors. Music is not mixed in these environments, it is mixed in rooms much closer to home listening rooms (size-wise).
You are 100% correct that there will be some individual preference in the degree of slope. Still doesn't change the fact that Audyssey should not aim for a flat response from 20-3,000 Hz.
Just my two cents.
Audyssey aims at a flat response between 20 and 3 kHz (and even further) even because of the DEQ (Dynamic EQ) feature. If the response were not flat, then DEQ would not work properly. Just enable DEQ and the curve is not flat any more. Sure, we could discuss about the issues DEQ brings into the game; at the same time Audyssey is flat only if you do not use DEQ (with or without the app).
Problem with DEQ is how it messes up front/rear balance, now there's a sure mistake.Just my two cents.
Audyssey aims at a flat response between 20 and 3 kHz (and even further) even because of the DEQ (Dynamic EQ) feature. If the response were not flat, then DEQ would not work properly. Just enable DEQ and the curve is not flat any more. Sure, we could discuss about the issues DEQ brings into the game; at the same time Audyssey is flat only if you do not use DEQ (with or without the app).
No, this is not correct. DEQ does a tonal adjustment (hence why the tone controls are disabled when using DEQ) to compensate for volume changes and independent of what the target curve was. It can be selected whether you have the Reference target (rolled off) or the Flat target in XT32.
DEQ is basically adding a variable frequency-dependent delta to the spectrum to increase or decrease the relative levels of the response to compensate for difference in audibility at different volumes. An automatic tone control so to speak.
Problem with DEQ is how it messes up front/rear balance, now there's a sure mistake.