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Hi everyone. I'm thinking about buying tdai-1120, because it looks very appealing to me feature-wise. But I have concerns about the quality of its amplifier part, in particular about certain figures that appear in measurements.
First of all, there is this document, which was quoted at least once on this forum, where the amp is said to have the SINAD of 69dB. The source for the number is supposed to be this review by SoundStage, but I can't figure out where that 69dB figure comes from. On the other hand, the specified price of $6.5k for the amplifier makes me believe that it's a typo and that tdai-3400 was actually meant, but it still doesn't explain where 69dB comes from (I don't see this number in Amirm's review of tdai-3400). Who is the owner of the document?
Secondly, though the numbers in the SoundStage review look OK to me (I must confess I'm quite a noob in this, but according to the calculator, THD+N of 0.011% translates to SINAD of 79Db), the difference between the damping factor in both channels does strike the eye - it's 39 for one channel and 75 for the other. While I'm also totally unsure how important that is (is it?), the inconsistency itself is a bit worrying. In Amirm's review of tdai-3400 there also was quite a big difference between the channels, but in that case it was the noise. I wonder if it's a general issue with Lyngdorf amps. What also worries me is that some users claim that 1120 is dead quiet without signal, but spacebar has said in this thread that he can hear some hiss from his speakers. Are there inconsistencies between different units then?
On the other hand, there were claims that Lyngdorf amps are too special and must be tested specially. E.g. here a guy (a Lyngdorf dealer I believe) claims that in addition to using a narrower filter and turning off the ICC feature (which would improve SINAD numbers here, but would probably not affect the frequency response graph much, am I right?), one should also measure one channel at a time. I must say the latter part makes no sense to me, unless I'm supposed to listen to music one channel at a time as well. But may be I'm missing something and the guy is right and all those measurements are flawed?
First of all, there is this document, which was quoted at least once on this forum, where the amp is said to have the SINAD of 69dB. The source for the number is supposed to be this review by SoundStage, but I can't figure out where that 69dB figure comes from. On the other hand, the specified price of $6.5k for the amplifier makes me believe that it's a typo and that tdai-3400 was actually meant, but it still doesn't explain where 69dB comes from (I don't see this number in Amirm's review of tdai-3400). Who is the owner of the document?
Secondly, though the numbers in the SoundStage review look OK to me (I must confess I'm quite a noob in this, but according to the calculator, THD+N of 0.011% translates to SINAD of 79Db), the difference between the damping factor in both channels does strike the eye - it's 39 for one channel and 75 for the other. While I'm also totally unsure how important that is (is it?), the inconsistency itself is a bit worrying. In Amirm's review of tdai-3400 there also was quite a big difference between the channels, but in that case it was the noise. I wonder if it's a general issue with Lyngdorf amps. What also worries me is that some users claim that 1120 is dead quiet without signal, but spacebar has said in this thread that he can hear some hiss from his speakers. Are there inconsistencies between different units then?
On the other hand, there were claims that Lyngdorf amps are too special and must be tested specially. E.g. here a guy (a Lyngdorf dealer I believe) claims that in addition to using a narrower filter and turning off the ICC feature (which would improve SINAD numbers here, but would probably not affect the frequency response graph much, am I right?), one should also measure one channel at a time. I must say the latter part makes no sense to me, unless I'm supposed to listen to music one channel at a time as well. But may be I'm missing something and the guy is right and all those measurements are flawed?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #243
Hello @ohforf .
I don’t have any answers because this is above my knowledge. But I would like to add that the hissing from my speakers is very low. My ear is really close to speaker and moving away slightly the hiss is gone. This should not be any concern. I’ve also been told by my dealer that the amp is quiet.
If you’re able to test the amp before you buy, I would do that. I’ve had mine for almost 1.5 year and still very happy. I really like the sound and next up is probably some new speakers, but have not decided what to buy/test.
I don’t have any answers because this is above my knowledge. But I would like to add that the hissing from my speakers is very low. My ear is really close to speaker and moving away slightly the hiss is gone. This should not be any concern. I’ve also been told by my dealer that the amp is quiet.
If you’re able to test the amp before you buy, I would do that. I’ve had mine for almost 1.5 year and still very happy. I really like the sound and next up is probably some new speakers, but have not decided what to buy/test.
Tassin
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2022
- Messages
- 170
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- 632
The referenced document is wrong. The dealer is correct about how it should be measured.
I have owned the TDAI-1120 for over a year and can confirm that it is dead quiet. It is a marvelous streaming amp, very neutral with a lot of clarity. Thanks to it's 30A it is able to driver more difficult speakers. Don't be mislead by the so-called lower power specs.
It operates fully digital, which means no internal D-A conversion. It's DSP RoomPerfect can do magic, eliminating room modes.
There is a very informative thread on AVForums.
I have owned the TDAI-1120 for over a year and can confirm that it is dead quiet. It is a marvelous streaming amp, very neutral with a lot of clarity. Thanks to it's 30A it is able to driver more difficult speakers. Don't be mislead by the so-called lower power specs.
It operates fully digital, which means no internal D-A conversion. It's DSP RoomPerfect can do magic, eliminating room modes.
There is a very informative thread on AVForums.
I don't think so.
Yep. It provides digital inputs and analog outputs, so D/A-conversion is a must.
merrillaldrich
Member
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- Jan 29, 2022
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- 14
Hi all - after about two years' research, I decided this amp is the one for me, and started the purchase process this morning. I'm relatively new to all this and working within a modest budget, but this one just looks SO right. I'm hopeful I can get my hands on an actual unit :-D
OP
- Thread Starter
- #248
Congrats @merrillaldrich 
I think you did the right thing.
I think you did the right thing.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #249
You may read more about it here https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/fully-digital-systems/
Where?
They have a shop in Perth I heard it in.
… hard to tell as the speakers were small. But it seemed interesting none the less.
And it was the main reason I waddled in there in the frost place.
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It is just one type of class D amplification, that uses PWM to create the analog signal for speaker outputs. The signal at Lyngdorf speaker outputs is an analog signal just like in traditional class A, A/B etc... amplifiers.
As long as the amp has a digital input and an analog speaker output, logic dictates that there will be an D/A-conversion at some stage between the input and output. The conversion can be done at different stages and with different methods, but one way or the other, it is always there.
Calling an amplifier that has analog outputs as totally/fully digital amplifier is a misnomer.
Yes.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #256
Well I guess a new year needs a new update I have not updated yet, but I will let you know. Maybe this update fixes the Spotify issue mentioned earlier.
Edit: Updated now, and all good.
I have not updated yet, but I will let you know. Maybe this update fixes the Spotify issue mentioned earlier.
Code:
1.4.2 / February 2022
Features:
- Auto-off can now be disabled + set in 1 minutes steps from 1 to 120.
- Added support for new Lyngdorf speakers.
- New DSP 1.00e - including EQ for new Lyngdorf-speakers.
Bugfixes/improvements:
- Web triggered WIFI scan improved.
- GoogleCast / CEC-ARC conflict (Did sometimes go back to GoogleCast after ARC initiations).
- New DSP 1.00e - including fixed EQ for FR-1.
- Web-interface duration /album-art improvements.
- Spotify: fix playback start issue in some situations.
- vTuner: Stability improvementEdit: Updated now, and all good.
Last edited:
WolvesWill
New Member
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- Feb 1, 2022
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Will try the new firmware on my amp shortly
Just curious, those of you using bookshelf speakers and a sub, are you able to share your settings for high pass/low pass?
I have a pair of Revel Concerta2 M16 bookshelf speakers, and have recently added an SVS 3000 Micro subwoofer.
Initially I had the crossovers for both set at 80Hz (mains 4th order LR high pass @ 80Hz, and the sub 4th order LR low pass, also at 80Hz), and ran RoomPerfect). With this crossover I ended up with the subwoofer gain set quite low, to avoid boominess or muddy sounding bass. Bass output did seem pretty hefty all the same however.
I since read a few articles and forum posts saying that most beginners set the subwoofer crossover too high (80Hz being set as an example of this!), and the gain to low, and the low pass filter crossover should actually be much lower. I've seen a rule mentioned of it being 0.7 of the lowest frequency your main speakers can do (at -3dB). There is a Darko audio podcast where this is also suggested for ported speakers, and 0.6 for sealed speaekers.
In my case, Revel claim the following low frequency performance for my main speakers...
I've since tried the following settings, before running RoomPerfect again:
Mains high passed @ 55Hz, level 0dB
Subwoofer low passed @ 55Hz, level -3dB (with the -3dB taking it to the 0.7 point? Or should I be using 0.7 of 55Hz...38.5Hz seems very low to me?)
This now means I can turn the gain on the sub a lot more and it seems like the sub is doing a bit more than before, but I'm still not sure its quite right, and the bass is maybe a little less impressive overall......I find myself baffled by the theory and the possibilities which seem quite endless, although also impressed by the abilities of this little amplifier!
What are you folk with a sub and bookshelf speakers running? What would you recommend for my speakers and sub?
Many thanks,
Will
Just curious, those of you using bookshelf speakers and a sub, are you able to share your settings for high pass/low pass?
I have a pair of Revel Concerta2 M16 bookshelf speakers, and have recently added an SVS 3000 Micro subwoofer.
Initially I had the crossovers for both set at 80Hz (mains 4th order LR high pass @ 80Hz, and the sub 4th order LR low pass, also at 80Hz), and ran RoomPerfect). With this crossover I ended up with the subwoofer gain set quite low, to avoid boominess or muddy sounding bass. Bass output did seem pretty hefty all the same however.
I since read a few articles and forum posts saying that most beginners set the subwoofer crossover too high (80Hz being set as an example of this!), and the gain to low, and the low pass filter crossover should actually be much lower. I've seen a rule mentioned of it being 0.7 of the lowest frequency your main speakers can do (at -3dB). There is a Darko audio podcast where this is also suggested for ported speakers, and 0.6 for sealed speaekers.
In my case, Revel claim the following low frequency performance for my main speakers...
| Low Frequency Extension | 55Hz, 50Hz, 45Hz (-3 dB, -6 dB, -10 dB) |
|---|
I've since tried the following settings, before running RoomPerfect again:
Mains high passed @ 55Hz, level 0dB
Subwoofer low passed @ 55Hz, level -3dB (with the -3dB taking it to the 0.7 point? Or should I be using 0.7 of 55Hz...38.5Hz seems very low to me?)
This now means I can turn the gain on the sub a lot more and it seems like the sub is doing a bit more than before, but I'm still not sure its quite right, and the bass is maybe a little less impressive overall......I find myself baffled by the theory and the possibilities which seem quite endless, although also impressed by the abilities of this little amplifier!
What are you folk with a sub and bookshelf speakers running? What would you recommend for my speakers and sub?
Many thanks,
Will
OP
- Thread Starter
- #258
Hi @WolvesWill , I believe with room perfect you can just set the sub to default and speakers to 80, or don’t set anything. I thought RP is doing all the hard work while measuring so you don’t have to. It will set the best crossover for you based on the measurements.
I’m not an expert here and don’t have a sub, but is going to buy one soon.
So please share your thoughts and experience if you run RP
This is question 11, https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/support-roomperfect/
I’m not an expert here and don’t have a sub, but is going to buy one soon.
So please share your thoughts and experience if you run RP
This is question 11, https://lyngdorf.steinwaylyngdorf.com/support-roomperfect/
RP doesn't set the crossover automatically. You need to set it manually.
I don't have an 1120, but do have a 3400. After a lot experimentation, I use a crossover of 80Hz for both LP and HP using BW2 filters. My speakers are ATC SCM 19 V2 and sub is a M&K X10, which are both sealed designs. I have seen some people reporting improved results setting different crossovers on their speakers and subs, but it never worked for me. I guess the moral of the story is to experiment.
I don't have an 1120, but do have a 3400. After a lot experimentation, I use a crossover of 80Hz for both LP and HP using BW2 filters. My speakers are ATC SCM 19 V2 and sub is a M&K X10, which are both sealed designs. I have seen some people reporting improved results setting different crossovers on their speakers and subs, but it never worked for me. I guess the moral of the story is to experiment.
