LP vs DAC: Wife Can't Tell the Difference

[BDWoody]

No, I don't.

Aren't they like a zillion dollars?

Ahhh...I hadn't considered your budget constraints.

But, not really...i paid a zillion for a promo pressing that was noisy as hell, then paid much less for a recommended issue that has been very good.

 

[watchnerd]

Ahhh...I hadn't considered your budget constraints.

But, not really...i paid a zillion for a promo pressing that was noisy as hell, then paid much less for a recommended issue that has been very good.

Okay, they're not as bad as I thought. $299 for a Mint, sealed US version.

 

[watchnerd]

Truth be told, under the same circumstances (from outside the room), I don't hear a difference between vinyl, tape or digital either (assuming there are no give-aways like tape hiss, record ticks etc). I certainly don't consider myself a low-resolution listener.

Even in the same room, many many of my LPs are surprisingly quiet, especially once you get past the lead-in groove.

Especially 200 gram, 45 rpm LPs.

Some of the noise perception may stem from memories of cheap, mass market LPs from the heyday of vinyl, played back on somewhat crap record players.

For those who doubt, the pbthal vinyl rips are pretty clean, although he might be using de-noise software.

 

[maverickronin]

Some of the noise perception may stem from memories of cheap, mass market LPs from the heyday of vinyl, played back on somewhat crap record players.

I've never owned a turntable but how much work does that actually take for vinyl to sound clean?

When I go to a show and a dealer is showing off a megabuck system playing from a turntable it's dead obvious about 3/4 of the time.

 

[watchnerd]

I've never owned a turntable but how much work does that actually take for vinyl to sound clean?

When I go to a show and a dealer is showing off a megabuck system playing from a turntable it's dead obvious about 3/4 of the time.

Not much work if you buy a lot of expensive modern pressings and only play them 1-2 times a year (or less).

I have many LPs that have only been played once.

 

[digitalfrost]

I think when the vinyl is clean, it's mainly a question of the cartridge and more specifically the needle. A good needle will be quiet in the groove when setup right. I have not yet heard cheap cartridges do that.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Even in the same room, many many of my LPs are surprisingly quiet, especially once you get past the lead-in groove.

Especially 200 gram, 45 rpm LPs.

Some of the noise perception may stem from memories of cheap, mass market LPs from the heyday of vinyl, played back on somewhat crap record players.

For those who doubt, the pbthal vinyl rips are pretty clean, although he might be using de-noise software.

With high quality recent pressings, noise, ticks and pops just aren't an issue. At anything close to normal listening levels the sound and noise qualities of vinyl are very, very close to digital. Only the occasional tick gives the vinyl away.

Of the older pressings I have, some from the late 60s, there are many which are very close in noise/tick level with the best of today's pressings. These are usually Telarc, and some other classical. Popular music/rock vinyl is a disaster as far as pressing quality from the original releases, and I can easily see where the stereotype of 'record noise' comes from. Vintage Angel classical pressings are among the worst for noise - monumentally crappy pressings. I have a Denon record from the 70s which doesn't have even one tick, and the grooves are dead silent.

I recently purchased a Ortofon 2m Black LVB cartridge and a ProJect PhonoBox RS2. With the new cartridge, the stylus must be riding in a different part of the groove from my older cartridges since the noise is quite a bit lower on my older pressings.

I've had moving coil cartridges but I prefer MM because of the lighter tracking force. My previous cartridge was a MicroAcoustics 630 which sounds great but due to its age is showing increasing distortion (I bought it in the early 80s so its getting up there in age). It was extremely light and tracked at 1g.

 

[ahofer]

I asked my wife:

"If you're in the other room, and can't see the stereo, can you tell the difference between me playing an LP or streaming digital music?"

Her answer:

"No no no."

I guess my vinyl set up is just that good.

Or, if I'm a digiphobe, does it mean it's that bad?

Clearly you need to change the interconnects. She’ll notice that.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I've never owned a turntable but how much work does that actually take for vinyl to sound clean?

You need to buy quality pressings, and these aren't cheap. You need to keep them clean and a turntable with a lid to keep dust out. I don't have a record cleaning machine; haven't needed one - just use a record brush and Zerostat gun before each play.

 

[maverickronin]

Not much work if you buy a lot of expensive modern pressings and only play them 1-2 times a year.

Playing the same couple tracks off the same couple records all weekend can't help either. Seems like a poor way to show off your system to me but it's surprisingly popular.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Not much work if you buy a lot of expensive modern pressings and only play them 1-2 times a year (or less).

I have many LPs that have only been played once.

I have pressings from the late 60s (classical) which I've played probably over a hundred times and know where the ticks are - they have not gotten noisier over time/repeated playings. Records do not need to get noisier with repeated playings if they are kept clean and the turntable is set up correctly. I've never tracked my records at over 1.5g.

 

[watchnerd]

You need to buy quality pressings, and these aren't cheap.

Yeah, my LP collection is worth a bit more than the system itself.

$~50k or so in records.

 

[maverickronin]

You need to buy quality pressings, and these aren't cheap. You need to keep them clean and a turntable with a lid to keep out. I don't have a record cleaning machine; haven't needed one - just use a record brush and Zerostat gun before each play.

That is apparently too much work for most of those dealers.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

That is apparently too much work for most of those dealers.

Vinyl does require discipline to get the best out of it. I see videos on YouTube of high end setups (even Mikey) where there is no cover on the turntable and you can clearly see dirt/dust on the surface of the revolving record. Of course there is going to be noise with all that crap on the surface!

 

[watchnerd]

Vinyl does require discipline to get the best out of it. I see videos on YouTube of high end setups (even Mikey) where there is no cover on the turntable and you can clearly see dirt/dust on the surface of the revolving record. Of course there is going to be noise with all that crap on the surface!

My Michell Gyro SE doesn't have a cover, either.

Then again, I don't leave LPs on it over night.

 

[BDWoody]

I've never owned a turntable but how much work does that actually take for vinyl to sound clean?

When I go to a show and a dealer is showing off a megabuck system playing from a turntable it's dead obvious about 3/4 of the time.

It isn't that much work, but there are a lot of ways to work against yourself if you aren't careful. Get the record clean. Keep it clean. I wet wash every record I get, new or used, then if it didn't come in a proper record sleeve, I put it in one, and then put the entire album in an outer sleeve. Static can also be an issue if the weather is dry particularly, and can truly be a pain. There is an excellent 192 page summary of some of the challenges involved and precision cleaning/chemical based approaches to Vinyl from Vinyl Planet, that has been posted a couple of times recently. Pretty interesting read, but likely not to someone who doesn't have any records.

Yeah, my LP collection is worth a bit more than the system itself.

$~50k or so in records.

So, $50,299 now with Madonna coming your way?

 

[watchnerd]

I prefer MM because of the lighter tracking force.

Huh, almost all of my MMs and MC have similar tracking force ranges (1.5-2.0)

The only exception I own is my (rarely used) Ortofon SPU, which I think is like 5g, or something equally retarded.

 

[watchnerd]

So, $50,299 now with Madonna coming your way?

I should probably buy 'Thriller' first.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Huh, almost all of my MMs and MC have similar tracking force ranges (1.5-2.0)

The only exception I own is my (rarely used) Ortofon SPU, which I think is like 5g, or something equally retarded.

Maybe I'm just old school, but I can't bring myself to accept anything more than 1.6g at the most, and even that's pushing it. I'm used to the 1g of the Shure, MicroAcoustic etc. Actually I don't get why the trend in new arms is to go with much higher mass and low compliance. It has to affect the ability to track warped records and increase groove wear.

At any rate, the arm I have (SME 3009) is made for low mass/high compliance cartridges and that excludes most of the current MCs. The resonance with the Ortofon 2M Black LVB is 9Hz which is just about the best considering this setup is in the same room with four 18" subwoofers. I also have my turntable mounted to the wall, not the floor, and that eliminates interaction with the subs and footfalls (below).

 

[Rednaxela]

But. The wife who does notice a difference, preferably from the other room while you are still wondering about your cable lifters etc., is the ultimate proof right?

Here we have one who does not notice anything (from the other room) and now that’s proof for something too?

I say the role of the wife (in the other room) is suffering from inflation.