Loudspeakers that are neutral, dynamic, full range, and LOUD

[pierre]

A very interesting design. Having a hard time getting a price.
Guesstimates have been around $30k US?

IDK but I can ask, I have a shop selling them 10km away. The Rl-901K which is slightly smaller cost 12k$ for a pair. I like them a lot, distortion is consistently low, cardioid effect is convenient. They looks like a big cube, you need feets and they are very heavy: ~50kg each.

 

[Soniclife]

@SEKLEM How do you define loud?

 

[Sal1950]

IDK but I can ask, I have a shop selling them 10km away. The Rl-901K which is slightly smaller cost 12k$ for a pair. I like them a lot, distortion is consistently low, cardioid effect is convenient. They looks like a big cube, you need feets and they are very heavy: ~50kg each.

Not to bother, I was just curious. I could never afford them in any case.

 

[Hrodulf]

It's your lucky day!

https://www.reflectoraudiousa.com/

 

[watchnerd]

I’m currently running Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures powered by a ICEpower 700ASC2 based Parasound Zonemaster 2350. Power shouldn’t be much of an issue for all but the most ridiculous of speakers. What I’ve found is the Vandersteens, while nice, have clear limitations in output. I’ve had to back off output a couple times because of driver break-up and once I exceeded the x-max of the “active coupler”.

The 2Ce Sigs are pretty much full range, rolling off just below 30Hz. Some of the music I listen to has sudden and surprising amounts of bass which the Vandersteens aren’t capable of handling when I’m pressing the system.

I am not overly fond of subwoofers as they have been difficult for me to integrate. I’m not ruling it out entirely, but I’d prefer the simplicity of a two speaker setup with no subwoofer.

The obvious logic would seem to point toward going up Vandersteen’s line to something bigger.

I’ve also looked at Thiel, in particular the CS2.3, CS2.4, and CS3.6. I remember liking them but also recall them being a fair amount more forward than Vandersteen. I’m wondering if they’d become strident at high output.

I’ve considered looking at Salk, but have no experience with them other than general good word of mouth.

Also considering trying to find an older set of B&W 802Ds. I seem to recall they will play quite loud given enough power.

Any suggestions?

How loud?

And how much budget?

And are you willing to use subs?

 

[watchnerd]

It's your lucky day!

https://www.reflectoraudiousa.com/

OMG that is fugly.

 

[Hrodulf]

OMG that is fugly.

Hey now, he didn't say "pretty"!

 

[watchnerd]

Something with dual 8 or 10 inch woofers

I've been eyeing these, but they're probably too big for my room (400 sq ft / 38 sq meters).

 

[Evgeniy]

I’m currently running Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures powered by a ICEpower 700ASC2 based Parasound Zonemaster 2350.
.....................................
Also considering trying to find an older set of B&W 802Ds. I seem to recall they will play quite loud given enough power.
Any suggestions?

Phase linearity is impotant thing for speakers.
If you want "neutral" , ofc.
Are you looked for professional , studio speakers ?
(from Adam, Genelec, Tannoy, etc.)

 

[watchnerd]

Phase linearity is impotant thing for speakers.

Is it?

I didn't think the evidence was conclusive for the importance of phase.

Nice to have, sure, but many speakers put phase linearity as secondary to directivity.

 

[q3cpma]

That's true but some quite serious guys like Psi or Hedd really care about it. Some more information/audibility studies would benefit us.

 

[Hrodulf]

Nice to have, sure, but many speakers put phase linearity as secondary to directivity.

Much too often more important things are sacrificed to achieve a more or less linear phase. The problem is that without a coax array, a coherent phase relationship is impossible to maintain in larger than a pinpoint position.

I heard the ugly system I posted today. And it was damn impressive. Was it due to phase linearity? I dunno. Maybe there was other stuff done very right as well.

 

[watchnerd]

That's true but some quite serious guys like Psi or Hedd really care about it. Some more information/audibility studies would benefit us.

And Thiel and Dahlquist cared about it, too.

And Harman doesn't much (or not enough to make it the top design priority).

Like I said, I think "inconclusive" is the current state of affairs.

 

[rgpit]

I've been eyeing these, but they're probably too big for my room (300 sq ft / 28 sq meters).

Those TADs are the best most lifelike speakers I've ever heard.

 

[watchnerd]

Those TADs are the best most lifelike speakers I've ever heard.

I don't know if I can pick a single 'best', but they're definitely in the top five I've heard, too.

Given my room size, though, they're possibly too big, which is why the CR1/CE1/ME1 are the more likely upgrade path for me.

To the OP's point, I've had good results in neutrality and loudness by combining dual subwoofers with pretty large monitors (designed to hit 30-40Hz), high passing at 80 Hz. This leaves a lot of headroom and lowers distortion dramatically in the upper bass and mids, which lets the subwoofers do their thing in the true bass region and provides for more placement flexibility.

 

[Vintage57]

Those TADs are the best most lifelike speakers I've ever heard.

that‘s because they also have a big FR, from their web site.

Frequency response : 21 Hz to 100 kHz (-10 dB)

 

[watchnerd]

that‘s because they also have a big FR, from their web site.

Frequency response : 21 Hz to 100 kHz (-10 dB)

Well, that doesn't mean a lot without the SPL or distortion noted.

And response to 100 kHz.....why do we care?

I love those speakers, but quoting that spec isn't very meaningful.

 

[Vintage57]

Well, that doesn't mean a lot without the SPL or distortion noted.

And response to 100 kHz.....why do we care?

I love those speakers, but quoting that spec isn't very meaningful.

Agreed on your point regarding meaningful specs, that FR and the weight of 330 lbs each is what I could find on the TAD website

https://www.technicalaudiodevices.com/s/TAD-R1TX_brochure.pdf

 

[SEKLEM]

How loud?

And how much budget?

And are you willing to use subs?

Budget: if I could keep from going over 3k USD, that would be ideal. I’ve been eyeing the Tekton Double Impact.

How loud: Reference level without smearing of instruments and harshness caused by tweeter and midrange breakup.

Am I willing to use subwoofers: I’d like to consider avoiding it, but perhaps that’s misguided. My experience with subwoofer’s in general has been poor. I’ve had M&K push-pull designs like the MX-125 and MX-100(most extension and tonally accurate sub I’ve had). Sunfire TrueSub(turd), Definitive Technology SuperCube I(turd), M&K V-75, M&K V-125, Athena AS-P400, HSU STF-2(probably the best all around sub I had), Paradigm PS-1000(definitely the loudest subwoofer I’d ever had), Earthquake Supervova MKIV-12p(turd) and a few other powered woofers (no content below 30Hz).

Notice all the subs labeled “turd” are compact models with passive radiators? I tried 3 times to get one that would do the job (last being the larger Earthquake), they all suck. If you want a small subwoofer don’t get one with passive radiators.

That said, I’m willing to concede I’ve not tried Rythmik or SVS, perhaps they will change my view on subwoofers. I really like the simplicity of full range speakers because their integration is seamless and I’m not one that needs to crank up the bass. I just want a relatively flat response that can reach down to play some of the lowest organ notes.

 

[Sal1950]

That's true but some quite serious guys like Psi or Hedd really care about it. S

Some quite serious guys insist on $5,000 power cords. LOL