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Topping G5 special use-case mini review

mike7877

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Special use-case? What are you on about?

Using the Topping G5 as a DAC + amplifier with passively powered near-field studio monitors! If you've got some insanely efficient open baffle speakers for use with SET, sure you can fill the room with sound. And also, if you want to use your 91dB/w home theater speakers you can do that too, but don't expect levels much higher than TV listening. Best cases are near field SMs and high efficiency SET compatible speakers.

Now,... before anyone gets too excited about how this kind of use is going to cause damage to the G5's output stage, it's not.
"But it's for headphones!!"
Yes, technically it's for headphones, and that's why I'm calling this a special use case review. Speakers are not much different than headphones, they're both loads.
Now, I'm not saying damage isn't possible. If there's not thermal protection then there is the potential for damage - but only if you're abusing the device by playing it SO LOUD that there's so much distortion, even the stupidest drunkest person would object. Actually, there's one other potentially damaging circumstance: if you play a non-distorted sine wave right up at the level that's juuuust before automatic shutdown.
Otherwise: not.
The G5 features auto-shutdown when too much power is drawn. If you're listening to music with 8 ohm speakers, and there's no audible distortion, the current will be below 0.25A (which is what the output stage of the amplifier section is rated for). Speakers under 8 ohm nominal are not recommended because when you use them, say 4 ohms, it cuts both the power, and damping factor in half. Considering output impedance is a bit under 0.1 ohms, after taking into account connections and wire with the 0.1 ohms, you're likely near 0.2 ohms giving you a damping factor of 40. 4 ohms would give you 20-30 which is really really on the cusp. Some bass will sound a bit sloppy (especially closer to 20).

As I haven't measured the impedance of my speakers over their operating range, I don't know the exact resistance that causes clipping of a sine wave at 3.05V, but it's probably between 6 and 7 ohms - likely closer to 6, but if we want to be conservative about it, 6.8. This gives a 1.4W RMS power rating. Like I said before, if there's no thermal protection (I'm not testing and I doubt there is), it's not wise to play a sine wave at 3V indefinitely with this device, so don't. But the metric is still good and useful to tell you what the useful power rating is.

Now onto the important stuff: SOUND!

How does it sound?

It sounds great! Very clear. It sounds like its specifications imply it would sound. Very clear, complicated passages are kept together, bass is controlled and present in the right amounts. No harshness. It could have a bit more power, but it never lacked impact within its range (of 1.4WRMS)

20230612_114928.jpg

This here is ZZ Top. You can see that RMS voltage is 0.9873V, even though peak to peak is 8.12V.
RMS of a sine wave with the same peak is a bit under 3VRMS.

Any questions or requests?
 

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MaxwellsEq

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If the speakers are small and efficient and not too crazy a load, then I would expect a powerful enough headphone amplifier to play music. But, as you point out, the amp will probably be seeing a lower impedance then most headphones and so will need to handle more current than most headphones demand which could lead to heating that the case is unable to release.

You can achieve a similar result by taking the output of the voltage gain stage of a power amp straight to the speakers (depends on feedback architecture of course). I've done this at low volume to check the gain stage quickly.
 
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mike7877

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Just finished listening to some Smashing Pumpkins Mellon Collie. Definitely heard a few new things: textures, words.

I'm getting an even better sense of what's mastered well, and what's not. What's recorded with good gear, and what's not. Previously I had (well I still have it...) an RME Babyface Pro for decoding. It couldn't drive speakers directly like this G5 can, so previously my most detailed combo was it, paired with my Shure SRH1440 cans. Not a bad combination for sure, but the speakers I used are in a completely different class than the headphones: ATC SCM20 Pro PSL Mk2 (no relation to the 25 year old junk SCM20s reviewed here). I'll speak of ATC's new(-ish) flagship in-house dual suspension dome tweeter used in their Pro line from the 20s through the 150s (their best speakers up to "you could've bought a really nice car for that!") While breaking them in (in my apartment...)with 20Hz, moving them +-0.1mm I found their xmax to be > 0.4mm (one way!). Yeah, dual suspension one inch soft dome tweeter FTW! Completely saturated magnetic gap for insanely low harmonic distortion (always under -70dB over 1.8kHz, a further >20dB down for >80% of its usable range), underhung design, complex geometry dome, heat treated top plate, no ferrofluid. There's more I don't remember. I don't know of a better dome in existence, and I wouldn't trade it for anything (any dome... there are some pretty intense ribbons I might...)

Since the G5 can be used as an amplifier only, I will next compare the DAC in the RME to the G5's DAC by using the second (and final) stage of the G5's amplification. Not tonight, tomorrow or soon. It'll be a post in this thread, or maybe I'll add it to the end of this post
 
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mike7877

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Well I decided to listen through different amplification first.
I have a Denon 3700H 9.2 / 7.2.2 / 5.2.4 home theatre receiver.
Initially I had it set up 5.2 with Bi-amp'd front speakers and a separate Zone 2 for the ATCs in the next room (normal amplifier is in for repair, but 3700H is very good for an amp, amazing for HT).

In order to configure the receiver to work the way I wanted it to: with a direct pre-amp input that can be used whether or not the receiver is busy doing other things with its other 7 channels), I had to change the Bi-amp to "Front A + B" - I hooked up woofers to A and tweeter to B- and I had to change 5.1 to 7.1.
Which is a bit unfortunate, because Dolby Atmos content, when it plays, will play over my Rear Backs (ATCs). The same problem will present with actual 7.1 content, but I'm not too concerned there - 7.1 content is really really rare. I'll deal if/when I have to. Maybe once or twice a month for the next 3-6 months. Why am I using such a jank setup? My amp is being repaired and it's at a very extremely so so really busy shop that sells electronics and repairs things on the side, and it's a big job. Lots of transistors in parallel, capable of over 32 amps - 32V, 1000W, 1 ohm is where 32A comes from. Anyway, this poast isn't about my sad situation. Well it is, but not directly - indirectly... talking about the amp I'm using in the mean time.

So, the 3700H doesn't actually have pre-amp inputs. But it does have outs! That's right!
Wanna know a secret?
(WHEN CHANNELS ARE ENABLED, RELAYS POWER THEM UP, AND ALL THE POWERED UP CHANNELS CAN BE DRIVEN FROM THE INPUTS!!! CAVEAT: not the front or zone 2 hahaha!)
So I enabled the channels that nothing uses! :D
By the way, if for some reason you're wondering why there isn't access to Front or Zone 2, I'll tell you: I believe they're buffered. First I'll explain Zone 2. Zone 2 can be Zone 2, Height 2, Bi-amp, or Speaker B- it's connected in a way that even if you're using Zone 2's amplifier channels for Height 2, you can still hook up a 2 channel power amp to Zone 2 pre-out, and send one of the receiver inputs to it, without the sound effects of Height 2 coming through as well.
Regarding Front: They could have used a better, lower distortion volume control IC for the front two channels for better music playback. Also, the design of the 11.2 channel 3700H requires two 8 channel DACs. Since 16 - 13 leaves 3 unused channels, it's possible (and IMO probable) that, to increase sound quality and not have externally connected amplifiers send their clipping garbage back to the 3700's amps, they used two of the three "extra" channels to feed the better volume control for the front speakers.
The newer 3800 does 11.4, using 15/16, so maybe you can push to the fronts with 3800.
Four subwoofers placed and calibrated is seriously next level bass.
Update: I switched 5.1 plus Front B to 7.1 Bi-amp. Functionally the same, but a technicality.

Anyway, lots of very specific info about the inner workings of my AV receiver is probably unnecessary - I found it entertaining to write, I hope you felt entertained reading it.

To the even better stuff! Sound quality is pretty good. It's better than I thought it would be in some ways, and lacking more than I thought in others. Keep in mind I've only listened at moderately louder levels than the G5 is capable of on its own (it's late), and also, it's late - hearing is worse when you're tired, which I definitely am.
The speaker wire is 35 feet long and is 8 gauge multiple hundreds (maybe thousands) of strands of tinned copper. If 3700 had perfect output impedance and connections were zero ohms, damping factor would be 400.
Although this is the case, bass seems lacking impact in comparison to the raw G5. The G5 isn't bloated at all, compared to my missing class A amplifier out for repair, it's very similar to that. This isn't a HUGE deal, but it's noticeable. Next item: highs. They're there - present at the right level with no emphasis of any part of the spectrum, but still, busy passages can get muddied. One song in particular that the G5 shines while playing on its own is Brian Wilson by Barenaked Ladies. At the end where all the guitars and drums are going at it so intensely, the G5 doesn't miss any thing at all. The 3700? It did a good job, but with how well the G5 did in comparison fresh in my mind from earlier today, I can't say the experience wasn't a bit of a disappointment...

Getting this G5 has made getting my class A Kinergetics KBA-280, 140WPC x2 into 8 ohms (1000 x2 into 1 lol check its stereophile review to melt your brain if you want)

I'm going to listen more (and louder) tomorrow.
Sometimes amps need to be turned up a bit to come into their own. I've noticed that in other circumstances (driving my small towers- Monitor Audio Silver 6 which are part of my MA HT package, as well as driving my 3 way polk stand mounts), the 3700 is kind of like this with music. But only up to a point obviously. The extra large transformer for 9 channels ensures there's always enough current available instantaneously for loud transients.

I'll update tomorrow or in a few days about RME DAC through G5 amp into ATC SCM20 Pro PSL Mk2 findings
 
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