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Loudspeakers that are neutral, dynamic, full range, and LOUD

SEKLEM

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#1
I’m currently running Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures powered by a ICEpower 700ASC2 based Parasound Zonemaster 2350. Power shouldn’t be much of an issue for all but the most ridiculous of speakers. What I’ve found is the Vandersteens, while nice, have clear limitations in output. I’ve had to back off output a couple times because of driver break-up and once I exceeded the x-max of the “active coupler”.

The 2Ce Sigs are pretty much full range, rolling off just below 30Hz. Some of the music I listen to has sudden and surprising amounts of bass which the Vandersteens aren’t capable of handling when I’m pressing the system.

I am not overly fond of subwoofers as they have been difficult for me to integrate. I’m not ruling it out entirely, but I’d prefer the simplicity of a two speaker setup with no subwoofer.

The obvious logic would seem to point toward going up Vandersteen’s line to something bigger.

I’ve also looked at Thiel, in particular the CS2.3, CS2.4, and CS3.6. I remember liking them but also recall them being a fair amount more forward than Vandersteen. I’m wondering if they’d become strident at high output.

I’ve considered looking at Salk, but have no experience with them other than general good word of mouth.

Also considering trying to find an older set of B&W 802Ds. I seem to recall they will play quite loud given enough power.

Any suggestions?
 

digicidal

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#3
So all you're looking for is basically your run-of-the-mill ultimate loudspeaker? ;)

Salks definitely have a ton of "street-cred" and though I've only heard a couple in my life... they did sound great. Honestly if you have a good pair of subs they shouldn't be all that hard to integrate - especially if you are just picking up the bottom octave or so. A single sub can be more difficult to integrate.

I'm assuming there's a budget and that aesthetics play a role here (WAF)? Otherwise maybe some M2's? Revel Salon's? Golden Ear's with the integrated subs (forget the model)? Some of the revision Klipsch legacy models (though that's stretching the "neutral" quite a bit IMO)?

How much are you hoping to load your space (to what levels)? How large a room? Choices will be between adding massive power and multiple drivers, or very sensitive and very large drivers (likely horn loaded depending).
 
Last edited:

DKT88

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#4
I’m currently running Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures powered by a ICEpower 700ASC2 based Parasound Zonemaster 2350. Power shouldn’t be much of an issue for all but the most ridiculous of speakers. What I’ve found is the Vandersteens, while nice, have clear limitations in output. I’ve had to back off output a couple times because of driver break-up and once I exceeded the x-max of the “active coupler”.

The 2Ce Sigs are pretty much full range, rolling off just below 30Hz. Some of the music I listen to has sudden and surprising amounts of bass which the Vandersteens aren’t capable of handling when I’m pressing the system.

I am not overly fond of subwoofers as they have been difficult for me to integrate. I’m not ruling it out entirely, but I’d prefer the simplicity of a two speaker setup with no subwoofer.

The obvious logic would seem to point toward going up Vandersteen’s line to something bigger.

I’ve also looked at Thiel, in particular the CS2.3, CS2.4, and CS3.6. I remember liking them but also recall them being a fair amount more forward than Vandersteen. I’m wondering if they’d become strident at high output.

I’ve considered looking at Salk, but have no experience with them other than general good word of mouth.

Also considering trying to find an older set of B&W 802Ds. I seem to recall they will play quite loud given enough power.

Any suggestions?
I know the Thiel 2.2s that I have and my friend's 3.6s are known to burn out tweeters when played loud. Something to do with a lot of energy to the tweeters due to 1st order crossover. Anyway my friend likes to play his 3.6s loud and has blown tweeters twice. I've always kept the volume down and have not had a problem. Sorry I don't have measurements to say what "loud" means.
 

Vintage57

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#5
If you don’t mind the look studio monitors will give you what you want. Genelec, Neumann, JBL and others that make active monitors.
Most have safety circuits to provide some protection for drivers.

otherwise you might try Cerwin Vega’s.
 

MZKM

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#6
Too bad Philharmoinc shut down and Salk’s flagships were discontinued (woofer stopped being made), as those would have fit your criteria easily.

Unless filling to spend 5 figures, I would forgo the bass criteria and just get dual subwoofers.

I’ve said this before, but I don’t think anything <$5000 beats the Ascend Acoustic Sierra Tower with RAAL upgrade (~$2900). If your budget can’t accommodate that and dual subs, the Ascend Acoustic Sierra 2EX is really good for it’s price (~$1500).

Pair them with dual Rythmik subs and you’d be good to go.

Have you ever had a subwoofer with a variable phase adjustment or just a polarity switch, as that makes a good difference. Proper placement of course does as well; and dual subs is even better as it reduces room modes and localizability.
 
OP
SEKLEM

SEKLEM

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Thread Starter #8
Too bad Philharmoinc shut down and Salk’s flagships were discontinued (woofer stopped being made), as those would have fit your criteria easily.

Unless filling to spend 5 figures, I would forgo the bass criteria and just get dual subwoofers.

I’ve said this before, but I don’t think anything <$5000 beats the Ascend Acoustic Sierra Tower with RAAL upgrade (~$2900). If your budget can’t accommodate that and dual subs, the Ascend Acoustic Sierra 2EX is really good for it’s price (~$1500).

Pair them with dual Rythmik subs and you’d be good to go.

Have you ever had a subwoofer with a variable phase adjustment or just a polarity switch, as that makes a good difference. Proper placement of course does as well; and dual subs is even better as it reduces room modes and localizability.
I had a pair of M&K V-125s, although perhaps I didn’t have them setup correctly. I’ve looked at Rythmik. Seems like they have a stellar reputation. I may look into going that direction. I had a pair of Seirra bookshelf speakers and really enjoyed them overall.
 

MediumRare

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#9
First place to look for loudness problems is your room modes. Hard reflections are a bitch. For more bass, you’ll never do better than a properly set up big sub. It’s unlikely the speaker positions are best for deep bass and a dedicated sub comes with gobs of clean enough power. Allows reasonable priced and sized mains. Did you try the Revels mains in your price range?
 

VintageFlanker

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#10
Loudspeakers that are neutral, dynamic, full range, and LOUD. Hum. Naturally, the Monitor Audio Silver range comes to mind.

I owned a pair of Silver 10s (Actually Silver 500) and these had the qualities you're seeking for.

Many measurements from Sounstage and Stereophile around...
 
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#12
MZKM makes a good point about variable phase adjustment on subs. I never had luck integrating subs with mains until I subs with this capability.

I have revel f208s with 2 JLe112s and it’s full range and I can play them at concert levels.
 

DonH56

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#13
My Rythmik subs have continuous phase adjustment (analog) but you can also accomplish that with an AVR, processor, or stand-alone solutions like miniDSP or Antimode units.

Neutral, full-range (what exactly does that mean?), loud... Revel F208, F228Be, Studio2, Salon2 for "consumer" speakers. JBL M2 comes to mind, and perhaps other JBL speakers (have not heard them).

B&W should do as well but I have never been able to bring myself to get a pair (been close, and auditioned them several times at home over the years, but especially lately too much and too colored for me). Salk has a good rep but I have not heard them. Too long since I have heard anything Vandersteen or Theil. Other full-range speakers include Triton, Dynaudio, etc. that have built-in subwoofers. I decided many years ago that a good sub or two provided a much better sound with smoother, deeper bass by allowing proper placement and better sound from the mains by offloading the very lowest stuff.
 

VintageFlanker

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#14
Tannoy’s Revolution XT 8F (8” coax + 8” woofer) are worth an audition. Review in link below.
Good speakers indeed, but probably not what @SEKLEM is seeking for.
I had both these and MA Silver 10s at the time. XT8Fs are much more polite speakers. Probably a touch more accurate, but lack bass impact and dynamic. Handling power is not impressive (100W), they are less sensitive, and MAs may go way louder without distort.
 

tw99

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#15
Big active ATCs ? Scm100 upwards. Even my "entry series" model can play very loud and very clean.
 

Snarfie

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#17
I’m currently running Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures powered by a ICEpower 700ASC2 based Parasound Zonemaster 2350. Power shouldn’t be much of an issue for all but the most ridiculous of speakers. What I’ve found is the Vandersteens, while nice, have clear limitations in output. I’ve had to back off output a couple times because of driver break-up and once I exceeded the x-max of the “active coupler”.

The 2Ce Sigs are pretty much full range, rolling off just below 30Hz. Some of the music I listen to has sudden and surprising amounts of bass which the Vandersteens aren’t capable of handling when I’m pressing the system.

I am not overly fond of subwoofers as they have been difficult for me to integrate. I’m not ruling it out entirely, but I’d prefer the simplicity of a two speaker setup with no subwoofer.

The obvious logic would seem to point toward going up Vandersteen’s line to something bigger.

I’ve also looked at Thiel, in particular the CS2.3, CS2.4, and CS3.6. I remember liking them but also recall them being a fair amount more forward than Vandersteen. I’m wondering if they’d become strident at high output.

I’ve considered looking at Salk, but have no experience with them other than general good word of mouth.

Also considering trying to find an older set of B&W 802Ds. I seem to recall they will play quite loud given enough power.

Any suggestions?
I have the Vandersteen model 1 speakers the lows where regarding all speakers i had in my current room quite bad. When i did a room measurment i saw that my mids & highs where dominating my acoustics with at some freq around 15db (see gray line). When i corrected that (see white line) the bass came out perfect it became new speakers no need for sub's anymore. Would suggest measure first an try to compensate if neccecary.
 
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