Looks like Class D is the only option for ultra clean, high power amplification

[CleanSound]

Based on this comment from John Yang of Topping, looks like if you are looking for a ultra clean, high power amp, there's not many options out there. You are likely left with Dutch and Danish Class D (Hypex, Purifi, IcePower) amps or bridged Benchmark.

I was planning on waiting to see what Topping can cook up, but I don't think it will be anything soon. So definitely pulling the trigger on a Nord soon.

Ask me questions.

I would hope that I didn't inspire such hyperbole. Although, I would obviously appreciate some improvement, "thoroughly inferior" was not the sentiment I I sought to convey. The trade off between performance and the mild inconvenience of having to adjust the angle, and a few repeated button...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[TonyJZX]

thats just like, your opinion man

i expect class d manufacturers to push class d

i also think that if you push the budget for higher end equipment and you dont care too much about size weight complexity then there's nothing wrong with A/B?

are we ever going to see say an 80-100w class a/b amp in the size of a SMSL A300 for even $300? maybe not but its clear some of us here arent constrainted by typical price and sizing as pushed by chinese class d manufacturers.

 

[CleanSound]

thats just like, your opinion man

Did you even read what John said? He said, it's hard to engineer high power amps as clean as their amps today and looks like it will be a long time before they can figure it out. The product is not available and probably won't be for some time. Straight from the horse's mouth.

How is that my opinion?

 

[TonyJZX]

obviously it seems many here are unaware of modern cultural zeitgeist

but anyhoo, i turn this back on you

did you even read what i wrote?

its hard for HIM to engineer... so what

why do i care what Topping think? the world is bigger than Topping my friend and thank god for that

I'll give you an example. Toyota always cry how its hard to engineer an EV car. Do you think Elon or any of the new EV makers care for this guy's opinion?

Now John Yang. I have no doubt he's a talented engineer but he makes it seem like his case is the same as for the rest of the world. Is that the case?

btw. when you push someone else opinion so hard then is it then not YOUR opinion too?

maybe john needs to unpot his thoughts?

 

[CleanSound]

its hard for HIM to engineer... so what

why do i care what Topping think? the world is bigger than Topping my friend and thank god for that

Boy am I confused with your reply.

Of course the world is bigger than Topping. . .but the world today with these ultra clean amps are ONLY Benchmark the Dutch and Danish Class D manufacturers and Benchmark. So Topping ain't coming out with a class AB in high power any time soon, what does that mean? You are only left with what is on the market today which are Benchmark and the Dutch and Danish Class D.

Now, unless you know of other ultra clean, high power amps, please do share with us so we can look into them as alternative options.

 

[ahofer]

Some of this hinges on your definition of "ultra clean" and "high power". There are plenty of AB amps with sufficient power for most speakers (e.g. Yamaha), and many of them would not be audibly different from even the best Class D. A few of them are even reasonably priced.

And I say that as the owner of two class D amps in use.

 

[TonyJZX]

Some of this hinges on your definition of "ultra clean" and "high power". There are plenty of AB amps with sufficient power for most speakers (e.g. Yamaha), and many of them would not be audibly different from even the best Class D. A few of them are even reasonably priced.

And I say that as the owner of two class D amps in use.

this ^^^

comes down to arguments of sinad

again back to topping... what the hell does it matter if they make an ultra clean PA5 Mk3... when you cant trust its potted innards?

I think people are clanging the bell for the death of class a/b but is that really the case?

and people think that only benchmark ncore purifi and the chinese such as topping smsl and maybe fosi, matter? like really?

i like chinese class d and want to pick up an audiofonics but really, its not the be all and end all as if class a/b is over.

 

[DonH56]

Self-oscillating class D enables higher feedback than (most?) conventional designs and thus achieve lower distortion figures. Benchmark uses a (THX-licensed) feedforward correction circuit to achieve similar high performance in a class-G design.

There are plenty of amplifiers of various classes (A, AB, D, G, H) with inaudible distortion levels. Higher power is arguably more difficult to achieve for A/AB due to thermal management and such.

Class D has been around a long time, IIRC my first papers are from the late 1950's here (USA), many the latest designs are not Chinese (ICE, Hypex, NCore, Purifi), and a number of Chinese-made products are well-regarded, so I don't understand the hate. At least I am remembering why time spent on ASR is not terribly worthwhile lately.

 

[CleanSound]

and people think that only benchmark ncore purifi and the chinese such as topping smsl and maybe fosi, matter? like really?

If you are looking for ultra clean, those ARE the only ones that matter, because those are the only ones out there.

I have a Yamaha, that is spec'ed at .07% THD+N at full power, that's 63db but I love it. I also have a Hypex and I love it too.

The truth is, probably anything less than .5% is inaudible and so what? I along with many others are looking for a >= .000x; and the fact remains, there's only a handful of options out there and if you are looking for one that's high power, then you can scratch Topping off for a while.

 

[fpitas]

There are some awfully good high-power AB amps out there. But bring your wallet and a strong back.

 

[TonyJZX]

There are some awfully good high-power AB amps out there. But bring your wallet and a strong back.

these would not be 'ultra clean' (whatever the hell that means)

not good enough

there's lot of good high power class a/b amps out there, there's just a cost in weight and price that dont matter to many

 

[CleanSound]

Some of this hinges on your definition of "ultra clean" and "high power". There are plenty of AB amps with sufficient power for most speakers (e.g. Yamaha), and many of them would not be audibly different from even the best Class D. A few of them are even reasonably priced.

And I say that as the owner of two class D amps in use.

My guess is that anything less than .5% is inaudible, so the vast majority of the amps out there have inaudible noise and distortion.

But I still want one that has 3 or more zeros after the decimal, because I am a SINAD chaser and I think there are many others who are also. But I'm really not a SINAD chaser, I own a Yamaha that you speak of and I love it.

 

[TonyJZX]

to me the stereotypical yamaha 701/801 is absolutely good enough

something like an as1200, to me, is VASTLY preferable to many class d amps... and yamaha isnt even a favorite of mine

if i had a 1200 i'd forget that topping or any of the ncores etc ever existed

 

[ZolaIII]

There were class G amp's starting from long time ago which still can challenge best class H in both output power & SINAD.
There are cheap class A-B or G power amplifier with very good quality and reliability also having integrated useful futures as DSP (FIR + full range PEQ filters) and good performance (80~86 dB SINAD with ADC-DSP in use and it would be even better if better ADC whose used) which offer more power than any class H board. For example Dynacord L FD series.
Traditional brand Hypex module solutions with good warranty do exit (for example ATI) but they aren't cheap. I do hope they will get wider adoption and lower prices over the time.

 

[CleanSound]

something like an as1200, to me, is VASTLY preferable to many class d amps...

Elaborate why.

 

[fpitas]

these would not be 'ultra clean' (whatever the hell that means)

not good enough

there's lot of good high power class a/b amps out there, there's just a cost in weight and price that dont matter to many

McIntosh? Krell? Etc...

 

[CleanSound]

McIntosh? Krell? Etc...

At best, you get two zeros with them. The class D and Benchmark are getting 3 zeros or more.

Again, not audible, but for those who want ultra clean.

 

[TonyJZX]

Elaborate why.

that's just my opinon man

 

[fpitas]

At best, you get two zeros with them. The class D and Benchmark are getting 3 zeros or more.

Again, not audible, but for those who want ultra clean.

You're preaching to the choir about class D these days. Although when I go that way the tiny 700 watt amp is probably enough.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Class AB, 240W at 8ohm, SINAD 114dB

Modulus-686

The Modulus-686 is an audiophile composite amplifier based on the LM3886. Similar to the BPA200 (AN-1192), it uses six LM3886 in bridge/parallel. It uses error correction to ensure the lowest distortion (THD) possible so you can enjoy the music as the artist intended.

neurochrome.com

Yes it takes some elbow grease, but clean AB at reasonable power is possible. As always, just a question of good engineering (not of philosophy).