Life without tone controls etc.

[tomtoo]

As long i have a 10 band peq, i dont miss tone controlls.

 

[levimax]

As long i have a 10 band peq, i dont miss tone controlls.

Digital EQ is great for "room correction" and will "work" as a substitute for tone controls but compared to one knob that controls 5 bands at once in real time it is not really the same thing.

 

[tomtoo]

Digital EQ is great for "room correction" and will "work" as a substitute for tone controls but compared to one knob that controls 5 bands at once in real time it is not really the same thing.

Dont get you what you talk about?

 

[levimax]

Dont get you what you talk about?

I don't understand your comment. My point was traditional tone controls, while their function can be duplicated with a 10 band equalizer, are much easier to use. With a 10 band equalizer you have to move 5 sliders different amounts to have the same effect as turning one tone control knob and getting instant real time response.

 

[tomtoo]

With a modern digital PEQ you make two shelfs if you like to simulate tone controls. But who would like to simulate unflexibel tone controlls?

 

[steve59]

I don’t know how I survived brfore the remote control. If I had to get up for every song I wouldn’t bother. While my dsp’s were connected I found myself using the B, M, and treble controls fairly often/ For whatever reason I don’t miss tone controls on my current setup.

 

[MRC01]

I no longer have tone controls, either, but my software provides balance control, volume control and DSP.

Because most domestic rooms are bad.

As are many recordings. Sometimes simple tone controls can make them easier on the ears, so poor tonal balance doesn't distract from the music.

For room & headphone correction, I find that a precision surgical instrument is needed: multi-band parametric EQ.
For recording correction, I find that simple tone controls suffice.

 

[levimax]

With a modern digital PEQ you make two shelfs if you like to simulate tone controls. But who would like to simulate unflexibel tone controlls?

Tone control parameters can be adjusted on some equipment. Even without adjustment the Baxandall circuit is one of the most popular and widely used circuits all time in audio equipment. A better question is why would you want to do something different than something that is proven to be more or less perfect for the application. The answer in the audio business is to "save money for the manufacturer" but that is hardly a benefit for the consumer.

 

[tomtoo]

Tone control parameters can be adjusted on some equipment. Even without adjustment the Baxandall circuit is one of the most popular and widely used circuits all time in audio equipment. A better question is why would you want to do something different than something that is proven to be more or less perfect for the application. The answer in the audio business is to "save money for the manufacturer" but that is hardly a benefit for the consumer.

Typical tone controls are not realy usefull. They influence to wide band. Gently used sometimes they can be ok. But we live in digital age and have much more controle-

 

[pseudoid]

To whom or what is this addressed?

Probably me! Because I will call his bullsh*t, bullsh*t, in a different reply but I aim to make it PC.

 

[pjug]

Typical tone controls are not realy usefull. They influence to wide band. Gently used sometimes they can be ok. But we live in digital age and have much more controle-

We're talking about one-time tweaks that will be undone, usually for a recording that doesn't sound right. Do you really want to take the time to dial things in precisely when doing that?

 

[Frgirard]

I had a buddy ask me one day "why don't you have bass and treble controls". My response was quick "I don't need them". Move forward to today and I realized I no longer even have a balance control.

There is lot's of talk on this forum about EQ and room conditioning etc. Maybe I'm daft but I really don't get why all that stuff is needed unless you have a really bad room or gear. I really like the "less is more" approach.

I recently upgraded my system by downsizing and in my impression getting rid of a pre-amp and turntable and replacing them with a DAC has been the biggest upgrade I've ever made.

Bad records
Short-time hearing variation

 

[MRC01]

Typical tone controls are not realy usefull. They influence to wide band. Gently used sometimes they can be ok. But we live in digital age and have much more controle-

We're talking about one-time tweaks that will be undone, usually for a recording that doesn't sound right. Do you really want to take the time to dial things in precisely when doing that?

This is a common point of confusion. Specifying the purpose clarifies the confusion.
Digital controls with their precision and flexibility that comes with complexity, are great for correcting rooms & headphones.
That complexity is wasted on correcting recordings, where all we need to do is twist a knob or two to tame broad band errors (too bright, too warm, etc.).

 

[tomtoo]

We're talking about one-time tweaks that will be undone, usually for a recording that doesn't sound right. Do you really want to take the time to dial things in precisely when doing that?

Like i said, add two shelfs if you like to green, light blue lines.

 

[pseudoid]

Love that post Seeker-Smith

I have had other 'issues' with tone controls and your post made me extrapolate those issues even deeper. Thinking of old 'parametric' equalizers, to 'quadrophonic' stereo, all the way to the present day 'DolbyAtmos' 15 channel doodads: make interpolation rather more difficult. Probably, I've had them all!
(exception of Dirac)
My issue with modifying the sound coming out of a "quality pair of speakers' (while using 'equal-quality audio hardware') is that I have ABSOLUTELY no friggin' idea, how that 'sound' was originally born and how it was 'worked' to maturity (i.e. release) based on other humanoids and audio gear.
So, who exactly do I think I am to even touch a tone control?
If the fault lies with my 'quality' hardware or my nice room (or even the bedbugs in my kilim), then the tone controls become the proverbial lipstick on the pig.
If the 'unbalanced tonal' nature of the recording (or the performer) is at fault; then, I just move on to something else that is more pleasing to my ears.
Although I said "I've had them all!" << what I should have said was "I've had them ALL, but NEVER used ANY!"
Possibly because I am so totally confused as to what the 'correct' sound is supposed to be...
And please don't get me started on why we need subwoofers and 12 more channels.

 

[steve59]

I don't know if using tone controls is a form of arrogance unless i'm trying to convince someone else my way is the only way. For the most part it's distracting, but if i'm bored and playing with my system vs listening to music I will goof around and see how much I can get 1 pair of speakers to sound like another. we could form another thread on that topic. if it hasn't already.

 

[MRC01]

...
My issue with modifying the sound coming out of a "quality pair of speakers' (while using 'equal-quality audio hardware') is that I have ABSOLUTELY no friggin' idea, how that 'sound' was originally born and how it was 'worked' to maturity (i.e. release) based on other humanoids and audio gear.
So, who exactly do I think I am to even touch a tone control? ...

We can use live acoustic music as a reference, but even that is a moving target. It sounds different depending on the room size & shape and where the musicians and you are in the room. That suggesting having a wide tolerance for recordings that sound different yet are reasonable.

However, some recordings are so far "off" they're actually uncomfortable to listen to and it detracts from the music. Much too bright, too dark, excessively sibilant vocals, bass that is bloated or tubby, or too attenuated. Sometimes the flaws are so severe I think "life is too short to listen to this noise", but the music is good enough that I want to listen to it despite the recording flaws. That's the ideal case for tone controls.

For example, Dave Brubeck, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald and many other jazz recordings from the 60s are often much too bright. It's great music but I can't listen to the entire album without getting a listening fatigue headache. Taming that upper mid & treble by twisting a knob is quick and simple and enables me to enjoy the entire album, and actually hear more of the music that the recording's flaws were masking. I find that gentle relatively broad spectrum controls work well as they can reduce the worst of the flaws while preserving most of the recording's character.

 

[levimax]

The main use I find for tone controls is very soft or very loud listening. When listening at low levels quickly and easily being able to add bass and a little treble really helps. I also find if I listen very loud turning down the bass and treble a little bit helps. The Fletcher-Munson curve explains this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

 

[BostonJack]

The main use I find for tone controls is very soft or very loud listening. When listening at low levels quickly and easily being able to add bass and a little treble really helps. I also find if I listen very loud turning down the bass and treble a little bit helps. The Fletcher-Munson curve explains this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

I've contemplated getting a Schitt Loki tone control unit, partially because I think naming tone controls after "Loki" the Norse trickster god is witty. And additionally, they appear to be simple, functional, and reasonably priced.

 

[MRC01]

I've contemplated getting a Schitt Loki tone control unit, partially because I think naming tone controls after "Loki" the Norse trickster god is witty. And additionally, they appear to be simple, functional, and reasonably priced.

It's worth comparing with the JDS Labs Subjective 3, which gives you the option to buy ready-to-use, or build yourself as a kit. I built and measured a Subjective 3, posted results here.