Life without tone controls etc.

[MakeMineVinyl]

Many recordings, especially older ones, are mixed and balanced toward sounding 'good' on typical systems owned by 'the man on the street'. The priority of audiophiles is almost never taken into account - and why should it be? - people who are interested in sound quality are firmly in the minority of total listeners. The biggest problem with older recordings is lack of bass.

Tone controls are useful for adjusting recordings like these to sound more acceptable on our systems which are typically better than average.

Tone controls used to be a routine inclusion but later they were looked upon as something to avoid. That is misguided nonsense. If you have tone controls or an EQ, USE IT!

 

[NiagaraPete]

May I know which preamp you used before?

I have the opposite experience as you.

I used to do streamer to DAC to amp, with DAC doing the volume control. It was really good.

But, just recently I added a low cost Sabaj a10h as preamp and I prefer this route. I enjoy this chain more than before. Explanation from Guatard was that Gustard x16 vol control is loosy. Using a good preamp for volume control is lossless.

I had have (not sold yet) Linn Wakonda with Kudos and phono. I say it was half way decent. I found that even using an AirPlay Express direct to my amps improved my listening experience.
Now your volume control is interesting. I've found that my iPhone and iPad volume jumps to much and the crappy Boss 2 remote allows for more smaller changes.

 

[NiagaraPete]

That is the nature of age-related hearing loss. It's insidious. When was the last time you had your hearing checked professionally?



No. That's not likely at all.

Coincidentally, you know what can help compensate for room effects...?

I feel no need to. I pretty much use the volume to fix what I'm listening to. I'm going for test soon

 

[NiagaraPete]

Many recordings, especially older ones, are mixed and balanced toward sounding 'good' on typical systems owned by 'the man on the street'. The priority of audiophiles is almost never taken into account - and why should it be? - people who are interested in sound quality are firmly in the minority of total listeners. The biggest problem with older recordings is lack of bass.

Tone controls are useful for adjusting recordings like these to sound more acceptable on our systems which are typically better than average.

Tone controls used to be a routine inclusion but later they were looked upon as something to avoid. That is misguided nonsense. If you have tone controls or an EQ, USE IT!

Good points. I just added a sub woofer for lower level listening.

 

[Newman]

I had a buddy ask me one day "why don't you have bass and treble controls". My response was quick "I don't need them".

Floyd Toole’s response is also quick, “Sadly, many "high end" products do not have tone controls - dumb. It is assumed that recordings are universally "perfect" - wrong!”

 

[jsrtheta]

After years of living with the kind of audio most people did (mediocre speakers, JVC receiver), I decided it was past time, since I could afford it, that I get a really nice stereo.

I started reading magazines catering to the high end....

I wound up living for years with systems that had no EQ at all. This was what the experts did, right? I was seeking "straight wire with gain", right? Right? I needed to stay as close to the original, "live" sound as possible, right?

But that was nonsense. A lot of music is recorded horribly. My listening rooms were not duplicates of the live or studio environment. Plus, I had no idea how it sounded when it was recorded. And having spent some time in recording studios, I learned that there was a better than even chance the engineer was screwing it up from the start.

This went on for years until I decided that it was better to use EQ, to be able to correct for the room and recording errors, than to adhere to a senseless creed.

 

[Newman]

Correct!

 

[escksu]

The omission of tone controls in audio equipment was an audiophool hoax that they would worsen SQ - as usual without giving any evidence. It started in high end audio and over many years trickled down into the lowest end, mostly for cost reasons.

What any audio chain needs is room EQ. Additional tone controls can be very helpful when playing at low SPL (loudness) or when the recording is bad. I wouldn't like to miss them.

Not really. Many high end gears are actually very neutral and main aim is to reproduce the recording as accurately as possible. They do not impose any of their own character to the sound.

There are many folks in this forum who want their audio to be as accurate as possible with minimal coloration.

Having said there, there is nothing wrong with using tone controls, its all up to individual preference.

 

[richard12511]

Not really. Many high end gears are actually very neutral and main aim is to reproduce the recording as accurately as possible. They do not impose any of their own character to the sound.

There are many folks in this forum who want their audio to be as accurate as possible with minimal coloration.

Having said there, there is nothing wrong with using tone controls, its all up to individual preference.

Even if the gear is neutral, not all of the music will be, so tone controls still have use in a neutral system.

 

[escksu]

Floyd Toole’s response is also quick, “Sadly, many "high end" products do not have tone controls - dumb. It is assumed that recordings are universally "perfect" - wrong!”

Why should high end equipment have tone control?? Their job is to reproduce the signal input as accurately as possible. Hence, any form of coloration should come from the source (eg. You dac, pc, software etc .)

 

[JSmith]

Why should high end equipment have tone control??

It's really not hard to have tone controls with a bypass... in fact I would expect this from "high end" integrated amps more than otherwise. But in this case it seems the more you spend the less you get.



JSmith

 

[Doodski]

The Yamaha C-85 is the last pre-amp that I saw that had good tone controls and was a decent pre-amp. That is a excellent example of a nice pre-amp

 

[jsrtheta]

Why should high end equipment have tone control?? Their job is to reproduce the signal input as accurately as possible. Hence, any form of coloration should come from the source (eg. You dac, pc, software etc .)

Rooms add coloration. Recording adds coloration. It's a senseless search for a mythical ideal.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Rooms add coloration. Recording adds coloration. It's a senseless search for a mythical ideal.

What kind of tone controls can solve room colorations and recording colorations?

 

[jsrtheta]

What kind of tone controls can solve room colorations and recording colorations?

Any decent EQ can help, IMHO.

 

[escksu]

It's really not hard to have tone controls with a bypass... in fact I would expect this from "high end" integrated amps more than otherwise. But in this case it seems the more you spend the less you get.



JSmith

This segment is covered by AVR instead of stereo integrated amps.

 

[Sal1950]

There is lot's of talk on this forum about EQ and room conditioning etc. Maybe I'm daft but I really don't get why all that stuff is needed unless you have a really bad room or gear. I really like the "less is more" approach.

To you like decent bass response?
Download the free REW software, you can find a free source of a frequency sweep anywhere, there's plenty on utube. Using any mic including the one in your laptop "if you have one" do a sweep from 20 to 1000 hz and look at the graf you get at your listening position.
Heck you could even do all this with your phone and a couple apps.
ALL rooms will have huge peaks and valleys in the bass range dependent on it's dimensions and other things.
I promise this will change you mind on the need for EQ in the bass range.

 

[Chrispy]

No tone control like basic bass/treble controls in many units.....maybe if they're the usual lame non-adjustable configuration. No EQ at all tho? Crazy!

 

[Newman]

Why should high end equipment have tone control?? Their job is to reproduce the signal input as accurately as possible. Hence, any form of coloration should come from the source (eg. You dac, pc, software etc .)

Did you not read or understand the link at all??

 

[MattHooper]

Did you not read or understand the link at all??

I’m not sure what escksu meant in referring to DACs etc as the source, but I take his basic point as a good one. It’s been made here before: Many people on a forum like this claim to want accuracy to the source as their ideal. Well, that’s what you essentially get once you have set up an accurate system.

Once you start playing with tone controls to “fix” certain tracks because you don’t like how they sound, you’ve departed from that stated goal and now it’s about personal preference.