Let's stop calling Class D amplifiers "efficient" when they are not.

[NoMoFoNo]

I think it's a weird argument and non-related to the discussion of value at all.

Uh-huh.

 

[olieb]

I think it's a weird argument and non-related to the discussion of value at all.

I found the argument of @NoMoFoNo neither weird nor irrelevant. Maybe you did not get it in the first place?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Uh-huh.

I don't see the relation to relatives not realizing value of deceased ones' equipment is a valid or even relevant argument in the current discussion. In fact I find it rather weird and morbid.

Mock me all you want for feeling that.

 

[tmtomh]

I think it's a weird argument and non-related to the discussion of value at all.

I don’t think it’s related to the discussion of value either. But I do think it’s very much related to the discussion of this thread about aggregate/lifetime energy usage, environmental impact, and so on - which, again, I think was the point of the original comment.

 

[ahofer]

I don’t think it’s related to the discussion of value either. But I do think it’s very much related to the discussion of this thread about aggregate/lifetime energy usage, environmental impact, and so on - which, again, I think was the point of the original comment.

It's always difficult to go down the "what should happen vs. what really happens" path. Given the dearth of audible differences between amplifiers, we should all still be using @restorer-john's vintage amps. But, as you rightly point out, there's a big difference between what would ideally make sense and what humans actually do. Yeah, there's probably a lot of vintage equipment in landfills, and just as much waiting in basements, garages, and closets.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I don’t think it’s related to the discussion of value either. But I do think it’s very much related to the discussion of this thread about aggregate/lifetime energy usage, environmental impact, and so on - which, again, I think was the point of the original comment.

In that context I still stand by my comment then; that it would end as landfill because of ignorance of those placing it there. Ignorance meaning that they don't know the value of what they have in their possession.

And that could as easily be me, weighing a Fosi V3, deeming it a heavy memory stick from the early 2000's and throwing it in the garbage..

 

[tmtomh]

This thread was a BullShit Troll Feed the moment John typed out the Title. Everyone pretty much knew that and played along because it was fun. I could be wrong but I don’t think John was ever really serious and he just wanted to shake the cobwebs out and have some fun with his ASR Homies. His opinion about Class D is notorious. He is a person who values “Restoring Old Kit” to like New. Nothing wrong with that. Some people love restoring old stuff. Class D is as close to a “clear and present danger” to his chosen profession/pashion. Of course he sees the Devil in it. It’s evil and should be cast out.

This is and was mostly my read on this thread. All in good fun and just to an extra dab of Tabasco sauce to the dish. Actually he is to be commended for getting the reaction and participation of so many Members in this thread in a very short time frame. 17 plus pages, 340+ posts in 2 days. The Mad Scientist has baited us all into participating. All the while the conversation has remained civil and respectful and jovial. If Membership engagement was his goal. I would say it’s 5 / Nil Australia.

I hear what you are saying, but I think the content and tone of John’s subsequent comments strongly undermines the interpretation that he wasn’t ever really serious. And as lively as this discussion is, it’s also got a very poor signal to noise ratio despite many earnest attempts to contribute by most of the participants in this thread. And that bad SNR is IMHO a direct outgrowth of his sh**posting/trolling and the enabling behavior of others.

Look, I get it - I enjoyed and understood the initial “how many drinks did he have” type comments, and contributed one (admittedly more peeved but still half-amused) comment myself early on.

But his subsequent comments show he wasn’t kidding at all, and that he has exactly zero willingness to define his concern or argument with any consistency, just moving the goalposts and deflecting willy-nilly whenever he feels like it. It’s all about bashing one amp topology and indulging in 70s amp porn, nothing more. It’s behavior that would not be tolerated if others engaged in it.

To be clear, I’m not asking that you take any action. I’m just explaining my perspective.

 

[tmtomh]

It's always difficult to go down the "what should happen vs. what really happens" path. Given the dearth of audible differences between amplifiers, we should all still be using @restorer-john's vintage amps. But, as you rightly point out, there's a big difference between what would ideally make sense and what humans actually do. Yeah, there's probably a lot of vintage equipment in landfills, and just as much waiting in basements, garages, and closets.

No, we shouldn’t all be using his vintage amps. Some of them need servicing and have unobtainable parts. Some of them produce audible hiss from speakers. Some lack adequate speaker protection. Some are too large or heavy to be practical or thermally managed in certain installations.

But of course he’s not talking about any of those. He’s talking only about the very best models, that use easily obtainable parts, and that aren’t going to be used in applications that he deems unimportant or irrelevant. It’s the same old sh** over and over, no matter the thread or the ostensible topic.

 

[Philbo King]

Nuh uh!

Are too!

 

[antennaguru]

This thread was a BullShit Troll Feed the moment John typed out the Title. Everyone pretty much knew that and played along because it was fun. I could be wrong but I don’t think John was ever really serious and he just wanted to shake the cobwebs out and have some fun with his ASR Homies. His opinion about Class D is notorious. He is a person who values “Restoring Old Kit” to like New. Nothing wrong with that. Some people love restoring old stuff. Class D is as close to a “clear and present danger” to his chosen profession/pashion. Of course he sees the Devil in it. It’s evil and should be cast out.

This is and was mostly my read on this thread. All in good fun and just to an extra dab of Tabasco sauce to the dish. Actually he is to be commended for getting the reaction and participation of so many Members in this thread in a very short time frame. 17 plus pages, 340+ posts in 2 days. The Mad Scientist has baited us all into participating. All the while the conversation has remained civil and respectful and jovial. If Membership engagement was his goal. I would say it’s 5 / Nil Australia.

Uh huh

 

[Blumlein 88]

Wow. Funny thread. Now we are worried about what happens to grandpaw's vintage amp that will outlast grandpaw because it will last forever.

I remember when solid state came out and old guys were complaining. With tubes when they burn out you just plug in another one. Every drug store had a tube tester and most of the tubes you'd need. With these goofy transistor things you'll need to solder parts in and out and they don't have transistors for sale at the drug store. When they quit most people will just throw them out. Guess they were right.

Class D is worse and blow up all the time seemingly. Yet I own two. One is 15 years old and still used daily. The other is either 20 or 21 years old and while now used less often still works just fine. Maybe I should be worried. I may have to buy another amp before I die. I'll take a nerve pill and try not to let it upset me that owning class D puts me on deathwatch.

 

[Timcognito]

I'll take a nerve pill and try not to let it upset me that owning class D puts me on deathwatch.

PM me when you go to hospice I may want to buy it if it lasted that long.

 

[Sokel]

Does any one knows a nice landfill I can put this to rest?It's about 1.5 meters high and 55kg.



(if we're talking about a wire with gain and full analog VC )

Edit: the really funny thing is it's efficiency,isn't it?
(talking about green stuff,no electricity required,not even a good meal,10 easy revolutions by hand and good to go! )

 

[Blumlein 88]

Does any one knows a nice landfill I can put this to rest?It's about 1.5 meters high and 55kg.

View attachment 317145View attachment 317146View attachment 317147

(if we're talking about a wire with gain and full analog VC )

Oh you could probably let Cracker Barrel have it. They could use it for store decoration. They tend to do that sort of thing.

 

[Sokel]

Oh you could probably let Cracker Barrel have it. They could use it for store decoration. They tend to do that sort of thing.

I use it for critical listening but I'm thinking of changing (DIY) it's silver tonearm with a copper one for some extra warmth.
Also put some springs instead of it's normal feet to reduce vibrations due to the powerful low end

 

[Timcognito]

Very warm for Moss Beach today. It's rare to see the "U" in TUBES.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

View attachment 317155
Very warm for Moss Beach today. It's rare to see the "U" in TUBES.

True. 90 degrees is almost boiling point. I would retreat to colder climate immediately.

 

[mhardy6647]

I won't rest until the loudspeaker industry stops making loudspeakers of 85 dB per watt at 1 meter sensitivity and goes back to 105 dB per watt at 1 meter!
That will cut the requirement for amplifier power by one hundred-fold.
Now that's green innovation!

 

[sam_adams]

Wow. Funny thread. . . .
View attachment 317144

More like . . .

or . . .

 

[dlaloum]

Thank you for the reply. That is a good point. Could you put a number on minimal? As in if I had to pay someone to do it? I’m just trying to think through the issue since some of the amps we are talking about are $80.

I was not thinking of lower end amps - the Quad 606 was in its day a high end amp....

Refurbishing my 606 about 10 years ago, cost me around AU$250 (roughly US$150).