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Yes, fully agree with you, the same for me too, as you may look and understand my setup using OKTO DAC8PRO shared in the top post on this exciting thread.
Timmy - so, I'm just curious, what's the need for all the different amps (and amp switchers) if you are ultimately sending to just one pair of speakers? Is this all in the same room, or different rooms? I have many different receivers and amps, but they are in different rooms with different speakers...?
Perhaps if I post this photo here; it may force me to do a real wiring/connectivity diagram before I forget the details.
Finally, I fully ripped out my RCA-based multi-channel system.
It started with giving away my unused Technics SL1200MkII turntable, and it did not hurt!
Then, I replaced my 5-Ch Rotel amp with a baby-fosi, and that one actually felt good.
Last week, the Rotel Pre/Proc, along with a HK CD401xm cassette deck, a Sony DAT recorder, a vcr-to-dvdr and Blue-Ray hardware were all decommissioned for good.
It feels liberating but I still don't know what to do with that Monster power-conditioner boat-anchor and all the XLR replaced RCAs...
Your system looks interesting, and the flowchart/diagram contains a lot of information including SLP curves.
I will soon respond to you, hopefully within a few days, on your new thread regarding the three inquiries you raised!
I am a retired Unix/Linux systems developer so I use Linux everywhere (desktops, servers, endpoints).
The flac files are also tagged with metadata and curated artist images are also captured.
- I have the "master/production" PC that contains all the music/video files
- I have a full clone of this offsite (so I can swap it in immediately if I have an issue)
- I have two self built Linux backup servers in my home*** using raid 10, that contains all the music/video files (plus lots of stuff related to my prior occupation)
- I have three 10TB 3.5" HD drives (I dont believe in small 2.5" drives) that contain copies of the Linux backup servers located in my car that is in my driveway (near site)
- I have three 10TB 3.5" HD drives that contain copies of the Linux backup servers in my sisters house 40km away (offsite)
Excessive... yes... Paranoid..Yes..
Peter
*** in fact I had LOTS of servers around the house(Linux, Solaris, HPUX, AIX).when I was working (around 20) but have cut this down to 10 LInux servers
When I retired we moved into a one bed+den condo. No space for shelves of CDs. I ripped my 500 CDs to FLAC and disposed of them.
I too had a career as a systems engineer and data analyst. I chose a very simple Windows directory structure with one root for classical and one root for everything else.
Folders are named <Artist><Album>. I have the FLACs on two drives as a local backup, and I make an offsite backup every New Year.
If (when?) the big one hits Vancouver I will still have Tidal. If I lose Tidal I can re-create my playlists on another site using my .CSV backups derived from Tidal via Roon.
I have downloaded the FLACs I play most often to my DAP and iPhone.
I admire your software, but I let HiBy Music or Tidal take care of the data structures (artist, genre, album, tracks etc). Both apps have an easy to use GUI. I paid for a couple of months of Roon to integrate the stored and streamed tracks, but I couldn't justify the cost.
80% my listening time is on Tidal. I now have 10 years of daily effort invested in my curated playlists (which I also download on the DAP for mobile listening).
My Flacs library is about 160 GB, located on a 5 years old Micro SD card. Never felt like doing any backup, but I do it now. Thanks for inspiring me to do so
I keep my files on a NAS (with dual backups) where my music is rougly classified per genre (own personal classificaton) and then per artist (with a V/A folder for the compilations). That works for me, but each must find their own way of classification, all are valid as long as it works for you.
I mostly play trough JRiver, that has an exellent libary system that can handle big databases (my music collection is very big after 30 years of being a dj and a radiobroadcaster). Something most software can't handle very well. But i still can find albums or even tracks very fast manually also. My devices (mostly windows or linux computers) all connect to that one NAS trough lan or wifi (mostly lan). My vinyl collection and setup is in my livng/listening room only, not in the other rooms (4) where there is a hifi system, those rely on the nas only as source of music trough a linux or windows device running JRiver.
Your MicroSD has a very-low BMI.
I recommend putting your "FLAC Library" on a high-carb diet!
I have a portable DAP, and most of my music-library (MP3+FLAC from a NAS) fits into four 512GB microSD cards.
Makes for a great, no-brainer, back-up strategy!
A friend asked me to do this, so I had no choice but to present to you a three-way system based on 3rd order Butterworth acoustic filters.
The woofer I’m using is a very affordable Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4, which features three shorting rings in the motor that help keep distortion impressively low. I was genuinely surprised when I swapped my DSA315 for the RSS315— the clarity and musicality in the critical range of 500-800Hz improved by 100%. Everything sounded so melodic that it made me want to listen even louder. All instruments revealed their ‘chocolaty’ side: acoustic guitar, flute, drums, male and female vocals—it was all outstanding. My opinion of this driver is backed by plenty of online reviews. I’m confident that no matter which brand you go for—whether it’s Scan-Speak, Wavecor, or Peerless—many of them produce similar chassis that will likely match this inexpensive Dayton. The key thing, though, is that they must have those shorting rings in the motor.
I’m also showing you what happens when we shift the frequency response down to as low as 20Hz.
A crucial factor is the diaphragm's weight. The heavier the diaphragm, the better the bass response. This happens because the energy you provide is transferred to the room as power, not just as amplitude volume. Remember, volume is voltage, while energy over time is power. It’s a bit like getting hit in the head by a girl’s hand versus a heavyweight boxer’s punch. Both hit the head, but the effect is significantly different! So, the idea of light diaphragms in bass drivers is just a misunderstanding of how loudspeakers work. The same principles apply to midrange and tweeters.
At home, I also have a setup with 10", 2", and 1" drivers. The 10" driver has a diaphragm weighing 99g, and already I had to add a subwoofer or switch to a bass reflex design.
One of the many mistakes amateurs make is high-passing satellites at 50Hz before adding a subwoofer. I avoid that, as I prefer to add the surface area of the satellite’s diaphragm to that of the subwoofer. Perhaps that’s enough for a first explanation.
In my case, the original (vintage but still amazingly excellent) passive three-way Yamaha NS-000 has been carefully designed by Yamaha people who decided using 2nd order BW passive XO filters for optimal XOs (miracle? Dr. Tolle admired/respected it after evaluation in his laboratory in Canada) for woofer-to-midrange and midrange-to-tweeter.
My initial policy and approach was to fully simulate Yamaha's miracle XO (at 500 Hz and 6 kHz) with my DSP XO after complete elimination/bypass of all the passive LCR-XO-network plus attenuators, and all the three SP drivers were/are dedicatedly and directly driven by each of the three amplifiers.
In my early stage DIY procedures, as you can find the details in early portions on my project thread, I have tested so many DSP XO configurations including XO-Fq, types of filter (BW, LR or Bessel), phase inverse or not, relative gains, as well as slopes (orders) in both sides of XO Fq, and I found that the magic of Yamaha design in the heavy-rigid NS-1000 sealed cabinet with the specific SP drivers can/could be nicely simulated by 2nd order LR filters at "the" 500 Hz ,and "the" 6 kHz thanks to the one of the world-best Beryllium vapor-deposited midrange drivers covering 500 Hz to 6kHz.
The positive effect of complete elimination of passive LCR network and the attenuators in improvement of total sound quality is/was just amazing as you may imaging and agree.
I also carefully avoided any magnetic susceptible metals in SP cabling signal paths; - Elimination of magnetic susceptible metals in SP signal handling: #250, #013(remote thread), #931
A crucial factor is the diaphragm's weight. The heavier the diaphragm, the better the bass response. This happens because the energy you provide is transferred to the room as power, not just as amplitude volume. Remember, volume is voltage, while energy over time is power. It’s a bit like getting hit in the head by a girl’s hand versus a heavyweight boxer’s punch. Both hit the head, but the effect is significantly different! S
Of course I know very well above your point (ref. here and here). Let me add that the excellent "damping factor" of your/our amplifier driving woofer would be another critical factor (I use heavy large powerful YAMAHA A-S3000 driving dedicatedly woofers).
I wrote here; .... I am really interested in this issue since the WO is a 30 cm cone driver and the SQ is 8.8 cm very light-weight Beryllium dome; there is a very large difference in "inertial mass" (mass of moving parts) between the two crossover drivers.
....
I agree, at least, importance of XO Fq selection for subwoofers to woofers, and this was/is why I did rather intensive measurement of transient characteristics/behaviors of my large-heavy L&R subwoofer YST-SW1000 and woofer in NS-1000 sealed cabinet; - Measurement of transient characteristics of Yamaha 30 cm woofer JA-3058 in sealed cabinet and Yamaha active sub-woofer YST-SW1000:#495, #497, #503, #507
At least in my specific subwoofers and woofers in sealed cabinet, it was a little bit of my surprise that the optimal XO would be at 50 - 55 Hz thanks to the still excellent Yamaha 30 cm woofer in sealed cabinet and the powerful-enough amplifier Yamaha A-S3000 having nice damping factor; above 65 60 Hz, the Helmholtz resonance "tailing" in lower Fq around 30 Hz (even low gain, a kind of distortion?) would somewhat increase in subwoofer sound which I can/could objectively measured/observed.
As the result, I decided to XO subwoofer and woofer at around 50 Hz with 2nd order LR low-path in DSP (plus 3rd order low-path within subwoofer cabinet itself), and 2nd order LR high-path DSP XO for woofers. I clearly understand this XP selection is unique to my specific subwoofers and woofers; it may vary depending on individual system to system, and hence we need individual measurements/observations for optimization of subwoofer to woofer XO.
A crucial factor is the diaphragm's weight. The heavier the diaphragm, the better the bass response. This happens because the energy you provide is transferred to the room as power, not just as amplitude volume. Remember, volume is voltage, while energy over time is power. It’s a bit like getting hit in the head by a girl’s hand versus a heavyweight boxer’s punch. Both hit the head, but the effect is significantly different! So, the idea of light diaphragms in bass drivers is just a misunderstanding of how loudspeakers work. The same principles apply to midrange and tweeters.
I don't agree actually, a heavy cone can give good bass in a sealed, but i do it with the 10" Scanspeak 26W8534G00 woofer with an MMS of 50.5gr in a diy 77l sealed and got a good strong bass also. I did that in the past with an passive crossover, but now i use dsp (easier to fine tune) with this and this is how i tuned it...
Amps are Ncore based, dsp is mindisp flex and no dirac was used for this, this is pure FIR and IIR eq based on measurments. The top is a Mark Audio Alpair 10.3 (5.5") fullrange drivers, and the crossover od an LR4 at 300 hz. Measurement is done with rew and an Umik mic in my living room (hence the room mode cancellation dip at 90hz) at seating position as confirmation measurment of my tuning about a year ago.
Low mms (low diagram mass) drivers don't go very loud, but they can do bass as good as high mass diagrams, and very often behave a lot better higher up in the frequency range. And the amp of 75w is more than enough to drive them to loud for my setup in my small living room with massive stone walls (i live in a historic centuries old farmhouse). For higher power systems, a heavy cone is needed, that is true, but not for home systems in normal living rooms on normal volume
I'm certain you've compared speakers with relatively heavy diaphragms, such as the Scan-Speak Revelator 32W/4878T00, to models like the SEAS Excel W26FX002 - E0046-08S. Look at my 2nd photo. You have probably noticed that my resonances in the room are very distinct. Why do you think this is so?
A friend of mine always says his wife is the best in the world. I ask him, "How long have you been together?" He replies, "Over 15 years." To which I respond, "But you've only ever known your wife. How can you be sure others aren’t better?" It's the same with speakers. Why should a dome tweeter coated in beryllium be better than a ceramic one? I think we need to broaden our perspective and question why heavy diaphragms are used in bass drivers, not lighter ones. We should also ask ourselves why almost no one has used beryllium for diaphragms until recently, and whether this is just a marketing strategy.
This weekend, I’ll try to listen to the Yamaha NC1000 under the guise of wanting to buy it, just like I did twice with the Yamaha NS10. We'll see. Are beryllium particles really that toxic?
I'm certain you've compared speakers with relatively heavy diaphragms, such as the Scan-Speak Revelator 32W/4878T00, to models like the SEAS Excel W26FX002 - E0046-08S. Look at my 2nd photo. You have probably noticed that my fashions in the room are very distinct. Why do you think?
A friend of mine always says his wife is the best in the world. I ask him, "How long have you been together?" He replies, "Over 15 years." To which I respond, "But you've only ever known your wife. How can you be sure others aren’t better?" It's the same with speakers. Why should a dome tweeter coated in beryllium be better than a ceramic one? I think we need to broaden our perspective and question why heavy diaphragms are used in bass drivers, not lighter ones. We should also ask ourselves why almost no one has used beryllium for diaphragms until recently, and whether this is just a marketing strategy.
This weekend, I’ll try to listen to the Yamaha NC1000 under the guise of wanting to buy it, just like I did twice with the Yamaha NS10. We'll see. Are beryllium particles really that toxic?
Those things are extensivly discussed at DIYAudio in many long treads with measurments and so. And people like Geddes and Toole did participate in the past in those discussions. A lot happens there, and a lot of pro's in the bussiness hang out there (next to noobs). If you want all the ins and outs on that, dig into that site because under the surface you can find a lot. The D&D 8C was largely developped on that site before it became a commercial product as example. But it takes a lot of hours to dig trough that...
In modern speaker design, copper and aluminium rings are often used in the magnetic gap of the driver. These rings are employed to improve the speaker’s performance in several key ways.
Copper or aluminium rings help to reduce distortion by minimising the non-linearities in the magnetic field. As the voice coil moves within the magnetic gap, the presence of these rings ensures a more stable and symmetrical magnetic field, leading to cleaner sound reproduction, particularly at higher frequencies.
By reducing the inductance of the voice coil, these rings allow for better high-frequency performance. Lower inductance means the driver can more accurately reproduce high frequencies without the "roll-off" effect that happens when inductance is too high.
With reduced inductance, the speaker’s voice coil can respond more quickly to changes in the input signal. This improves the speaker's transient response, making it more precise and detailed in sound reproduction, especially in the mid and high frequencies.
Copper and aluminium rings also help in dissipating heat generated by the voice coil during operation. A cooler voice coil leads to more consistent performance and reduces the risk of long-term damage from overheating.
These advantages make copper and aluminium rings highly valuable in modern high-performance speakers, particularly in reducing distortion and enhancing clarity across the frequency spectrum.
Okay, returning to those chassis that are not recessed into the front panel, I'm not quite sure how this affects the amplitude response, but it seems to me that it doesn't have a significant impact other than looking more aesthetically pleasing when recessed. The speakers are still in the experimental phase, and the enclosure itself comes from a Canton CT1000 from my grandfather and is simply being used for these speakers.
And here’s a photo of my setup in the workshop. A 10", 2", and 1" configuration, naturally a Butterworth 3-way at 850Hz and 3kHz. The tweeter is an old Isophon SKK10, but I’m only trying it out for nostalgia's sake. What will end up being used as the tweeter, I don't know yet. One is never done with DIY projects. But one thing is certain: combinations with large domes are acoustically really sexy.
Thank you for sharing photos of your SP and some SPL/Distortion curve diagrams.
Only if possible at your end, I (we) will highly appreciate if you would kindly share your hardware connection diagram (with identification of amplifiers and SP drivers), and also your total signal path diagram (including the details of your DSP/Passive XO/EQ configurations); these possible your system diagrams would greatly help us for our "at-a-glance" understandings on your audio system.
As I wrote in the first post on this thread, I (we) would not always expect beautifully prepared diagrams; even hand-drawn diagrams would serve nicely if including the detailed info in it.
I expect your diagrams containing similar info as mine under the below spoiler cover;
