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Legal fund for Reviewers/Erin?

lordhumungous

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The US legal system is unfortunately often more like a war of attrition on who can afford to keep fighting longer, and not about who's right. In general, the vast majority of cases settle before they go to court for this reason.
Yeah it’s pretty awful. Some will sue knowing their case is very weak or nonexistent but if they sue for 25k and the defendant knows he will pay 25k in legal fees , the defendant’s best course will be to settle for say 10-15k even if he knows he would win in the end .
You rarely get your legal fees paid by the other side in the U.S.
 

BALKAN_RAKIA

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Yeah it’s pretty awful. Some will sue knowing their case is very weak or nonexistent but if they sue for 25k and the defendant knows he will pay 25k in legal fees , the defendant’s best course will be to settle for say 10-15k even if he knows he would win in the end .
You rarely get your legal fees paid by the other side in the U.S.
not only that but usually the legal systems are very different between EU and US law - it has something to do with precedents and what not.

If there is a lawyer who can argue that in 1779 some gun company sued a publication for not reviewing guns correctly it can have effect on Erin's case. Of course I am not a lawyer, but my family inherited a lot of money from a gun magazine that reviewed my grand-grand dad's guns. My granddad's name? Eric Alexander
 

Arnas

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I don't know how many of you have been reading the Tekton review thread. But it seems that the company designer/owner has threatened Erin, forcing him to take down his video and written review of one of his speakers. As we all know, Erin's core contributions are measurements of the speaker and what he speaks of, is his subjective opinion. Neither of these is cause for threats of lawsuit and intimidation to take down a review with nary an attempt by the company to show what is in error. The right of a product owner to send what he has bought for testing and publication of the same is one of the most cherished things in my view. I hate to see Erin cave in just because he doesn't have the money to defend his work and injure consumer's rights in the process.

So what you all think about creating a fund to help him?

If you are in favor, someone needs to help setup the fund and let Erin know.

Edit: this is what we are dealing with:

index.php



UPDATE: Countless members have been supportive and committed to donating such a defense fund. Better yet, two member lawyers offered to help and I put one in touch with Erin. Progress is being made. Thank you everyone!
I im tired of seeing so much negative stuff around.
People like Amir gives me hope. Thank you Amir for being such great example that we all should follow.
Also to laywers and donators here: You guys rock!
 

Pareto Pragmatic

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Almost 90000 views for this tread!

Do we, audio enthusiasts, like a “legal drama“ more than audio equipment reviews?
Lots of people like drama. I am very happy not to be managing any online community at this time as I have over previous decades, but over and over again drama spikes numbers.

IMO, in this case what you are seeing is a community rallying against an attack and defending their own. Which is a bit more than just a drama effect. There are a lot more people invested, powerfully invested, in this community. And while there are times when things are petty, the main focus here is "helping others". This situation hits that aspect directly. A call for help has been made, the beacons have been lit!

Drama is a show, something to watch if you care to. This place is part of people's lives, and the people here are part of each other's lives.

Or so it seems to me as a relative newcomer to this place.
 

Doodski

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Lots of people like drama. I am very happy not to be managing any online community at this time as I have over previous decades, but over and over again drama spikes numbers.

IMO, in this case what you are seeing is a community rallying against an attack and defending their own. Which is a bit more than just a drama effect. There are a lot more people invested, powerfully invested, in this community. And while there are times when things are petty, the main focus here is "helping others". This situation hits that aspect directly. A call for help has been made, the beacons have been lit!

Drama is a show, something to watch if you care to. This place is part of people's lives, and the people here are part of each other's lives.

Or so it seems to me as a relative newcomer to this place.
This place is a big deal for me and many others. We dedicate a lot of time helping peeps.
Screenshot 2024-04-10 041310.png
 

Multicore

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Many of us have already commented that we admire Amir's generosity in offering to support Erin with $$, and his generosity in doing that despite priors with Erin, and his clear-eyed defense of the freedom of the community as a whole to review, and of course of the work he has put in to making this web site what it is.

I want to add another thing that I admire. Reading EA's "dentist" insult to Amir, and that reminded me of comments I read yesterday on Stereophile got me going.

I believe in expertise and admire experts. I believe rather less in credentials, professional associations and those status symbols. Specialism is a powerful feature of our collective intellectual life that relies on trust. Credentials might play into assessing trust but other things can be more important. So EA's dentist analogy falls flat for me.

The other commenter took a different approach showing an alleged error Amir had made and used that as a basis to denounce Amir as an incompetent hack and therefore untrustworthy. I call BS on that too because being wrong or ignorant is a necessary, inescapable precondition of the process of learning that we should recognize but not avoid. Serious people working at or near the state of their art know this (perhaps not entirely consciously or in these terms) and take it into account by checking their work with others, sometimes in public, and correcting errors. Many of us don't like it when our errors are pointed out (vanity is normal) but the alternatives are worse. To avoid risk is to avoid the possibility of progress. Somewhere between avoidance of novel work or withholding it and wasting other people's time by presenting sloppy work is the kind of disposition conducive to making most progress.

So, @amirm , I want to thank you for being prepared to take the heat, for pushing the state of play forwards, and for being brave enough to do this in public with the attendant risk of public slip-ups, for supporting everyone's standing to participate regardless of credentials, for upholding the value of reasoned discourse over status, by your own example and by operating this web site.
 
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welwynnick

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Eric Alexander behaves as if he’s a great speaker designer, but he proved the opposite with his own speakers, so the evidence is out there.
He makes a feature of using a tweeter array to perform mid-range duties.
The argument is that they’re lighter, so they can mechanically respond to the electrical input more quickly, but there are a few problems with this:

First, tweeters are small, so they have move further than a mid-driver, which undoes the supposed advantage.
Second, the ability to react quickly is reflected in the frequency response. If it's flat – it’s right.
Third, speaker drive units are dynamic transducers, not static, which is a crucial difference that few understand, including Eric.
Finally, if it really was a good idea, everyone would do it.

Here’s what dynamic means. At very low frequency, the time varying displacement of the drive unit diaphragm is roughly in phase and in proportion to the applied electrical signal. The resistance to motion comes from the mechanical and acoustic suspension. The displacement amplitude is roughly constant with frequency, and the acoustic output increases with frequency. In this state, a light drive unit would indeed respond to the electrical input more quickly than a heavy drive unit. This is static transducer behaviour, and this is what happens below the drive unit’s normal operating frequency range (the pass band).

Fortunately drive units don’t work like this in their pass band, otherwise you’d never get a flat frequency response. Within their pass band , drive units work as dynamic transducers, and the resistance to motion is predominantly the mass, not the suspension. The force generated from the electrical signal into the motor goes into accelerating the heavy drive unit back and forth, and it’s that acceleration of the diaphragm and hence the air that creates the loudness – not the position, nor the displacement, nor the velocity. When a signal is applied the drive unit starts accelerating and when the signal is removed the drive unit carries on what it’s doing – moving, stationary, whatever.

So – reducing the mass must improve the “speed”, right? Wrong – it increases the efficiency, not the speed or the bandwidth. The drive unit accelerates the instant the force is applied, not after it’s had time to move, it’s immediate. Reducing the mass will increase the acceleration, so you get a higher output for a given input, which is higher efficiency. The upper frequency limit is generally constrained by the driver’s ability to maintain pistonic motion, and not it’s mass.

So reducing the driver mass doesn’t make it faster. Proper speaker designers know this, and unless it’s all a cynical con, Eric clearly isn't one of them.
 
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DonM

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Since Tekton has removed the Troubadour speaker from their website I used the Wayback Machine to retrieve a copy from Oct 19, 2023:

Troubadour 2023-10-19.jpg


"The Wayback Machine is a digital archive of the World Wide Web and other information on the Internet. It's maintained by the Internet Archive, a nonprofit organization that aims to preserve digital content for future generations. The Wayback Machine allows users to access archived versions of web pages as they appeared at different points in time, providing a historical record of the evolution of websites over the years."

"Users can enter a URL into the Wayback Machine's search bar to view snapshots of that website captured at various dates. This can be useful for researchers, historians, and anyone interested in tracking the development of websites, including changes in design, content, and functionality over time."

I retrieved the above so that readers of this thread could view and review what Tekton Design LLC had originally posted when selling that speaker.
 
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rdenney

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I think we should stay out of it given the fact that it seems a mutual agreement is in place. Just my 2c. This "cease and desist" stuff is everyday business in corporate America. Blame the system at this stage.
C&D letters are common, perhaps, but that doesn't mean well-meaning people shouldn't push back on them. Often, it is not used to notify an infringer in good faith, but to intimidate someone into believing they are an infringer whether or not they really are. It's used in that way because it so often works. I'm not judging anyone who doesn't push back--even a successful defense can be ruinously expensive. But when there is a possibility of mounting a public and dominating defense, it's worth pursuing simply to restore some balance in this little corner of industry.

Jurisprudence in America is based largely on precedent. The way to change what seems to be an imbalance is to fight it to establish new precedents.

But this isn't (yet) a legal matter, because there has been no C&D letter than we know of and no formal legal action that seems imminent. This is a public-relations matter because the principle combatant has chosen to make it so, giving it the appearance of gravitas with what would look to any reasonable person like legal threats. And if it's a public-relations issue, the public is where it should be aired. Had Mr. Alexander approached the reviewers in good faith privately, rather than in the public comments sections of their posted reviews, then it would be something to be dealt with privately. Erin made his conflict private as a matter of self-protection, as was his choice, but it didn't start that way.

Rick "trying to catch up" Denney
 

teched58

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This was posted an hour ago on Youthman's video. His would be interesting if it were to happen, but its too little too late for Eric.

View attachment 362633

Eric Alexander states that Stereophile shows their reviews to the company being reviewed IN ADVANCE OF PUBLICATION!!

Wrecking ball Eric has let something out of the bag that I'm sure Jim Austin would rather have kept private. (Eric is so off the beam that he's now hurting his SUPPORTERS!)

(On the plus side, it also apparently means that most vendors are unable to decode JA1's inscrutible statements when he finds something not great in the measurements.)

[EDIT: John Atkinson has responded and said that SP never changes the text so I withdraw any suggestion of unethical behavior. Alhough the thought strikes me that this technique may be used in part to try to sell the subject of the review an ad.]
 
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pablolie

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Eric Alexander states that Stereophile shows their reviews to the company being reviewed IN ADVANCE OF PUBLICATION!!

Shouldn't be a surprise at all, since there's always a "Manufacturer's Comments" section in the very same issue.

I am shocked at this. This is a journalism no-no. It calls into question their credibility.

In many articles, you see journalists getting information and quotes from different sources, hence also giving them an opportunity to express their views on the matter BEFORE the article is published. It's what Stereophile does. The fact they share the preview doesn't mean they give full editorial rights to whom they provide a preview with - they just let them write a paragraph or two of their own in response to the review.
 

rdenney

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Journalism ethics does imply a right of reply on the part of persons targeted in an article. The BBC describes their policy for such here. The reply itself can be a statement or a quote, as long as it is fairly reported. The journalist is responsible to explain what's being claimed with enough information so that the respondent knows what is being said. The obligation does not extend to supporting evidence.

All this applies to reportage that makes an accusation against a person, not that provides the review of a product.

But even if it did apply, sending the review to the manufacturer in advance does not seem to be a requirement.

Rick "test results are facts that speak for themselves" Denney
 

DonM

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LinkedIn is commonly used by individuals and organizations to validate a person's professional qualifications, experiences, skills, and achievements. It serves as a digital resume and networking platform where professionals can showcase their work history, education, certifications, and endorsements from colleagues or supervisors.

This is Erin’s (Erin's Audio Corner) summary profile from Linkedin:
Erin.jpg

Erin has highlighted that he is an Engineer in the Summary section.

This is Eric’s summary profile from Linkedin:
Eric.jpg

Eric did not provide any details of his education in the Summary section or elsewhere in the Linkedin profile.

The above has been highlighted in previous posts. I just wanted to validate their qualifications for everyone.
 
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Justdafactsmaam

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You only have to fight and spend money for representation if it goes to court. My point was it will never get there. It is a scare tactic but has no legal teeth.
You have to spend money just to answer a lawsuit. If a lawsuit is found to b frivolous then you might recoup your costs. But it’s not certain.

Plenty of money is spent on lawyers for lawsuits that never get into court
 

JohnBooty

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Eric Alexander states that Stereophile shows their reviews to the company being reviewed IN ADVANCE OF PUBLICATION!!

I am shocked at this. This is a journalism no-no. It calls into question their credibility.
It's reasonable to collaborate with the manufacturer as long as transparency and independence are maintained. I think Amir does something similar?

If there are flaws with the review unit, or problems with setup, etc the manufacturer should have a chance to help out. Of course, this should also be noted in the review, especially if the setup assistance provided by the manufacturer is something non-obvious. Ideally, the issue with the missing feet on Erin's speakers could have been resolved at this point. Please note, I am not blaming Erin or justifying Tekton's crappy conduct. I'm just saying this would have been a better outcome for all.

Here's a real-world example...
  • Micca sent me a pair of Micca RB42's to review for the r/Budgetaudiophile subreddit a few years back
  • I did a review including measurements
  • The measurements were a little wacky
  • Before posting anything publicly, I shared my review with Micca
  • They politely and helpfully pointed out a measurement mistake I'd made. To be clear, this was completely my fault, not some quirk of the speakers under review. I'd used the wrong calibration profile for my mic!
  • I then re-measured and published a much higher quality review
  • My review of course noted that Micca provided the speakers for testing
At no point did Micca influence the content of the review or do anything other than help me to get things objectively correct. I had similar experiences with Kanto, FWIW.
 
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Groove01

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So, people are wondering what kind of attorney could possibly be advising this guy... it's entirely possible he has himself for a client, so to speak.

In which case I think you're right, the best tactic would be to force him to appear in court, in AL, frequently. Maybe he was counting on representing himself for no cash outlay. That plan would be blown to bits by a handful of plane tickets and hotel stays.
Really good point! Given the circumstances, I would put my money on this being the case.
 
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