Kudos Titan 808

[MattHooper]

Oh no, don't force me to say something subjective on here, I'm new!

First up, I should mention that this is my 3rd pair of Kudos speakers. I started off with a pair of Cardea Super 20s, then moved on to some second hand Titan 88s (similar sound but more weight), and then about 3 years ago bought the Titan 808s (very similar to the 88s).

So how to describe the sound. Well I'm really not very good at this sort of thing. I would call the 808's well integrated, unobtrusive, but weighty when necessary. They just sound kind of 'right'. (Apologies to anyone who was expecting me to correlate the listening experience to tantric sex or suchlike...)

I only have a pair of these because of a fire sale from someone who lost their business. They needed a quick sell and I was their only buyer. I'm sure there is better VFM out there but I'm pretty happy with what I have.

That’s pretty cool! Lucky you.

I became interested in Kudos speakers when I was drawn in to a room at an audio show by a particularly lively sound. It was the kudos Super 20s. Track after track, from vivid orchestral trumpets to Stevie wonders clav playing that had such crisp presence and energy, just sucked me in.

Later I listened to the very small x3 models (if I remember correctly) and they bewitched me with their tone and presence too.

During a trip to England I managed to hear the Titan 505 stand mount which was just about to be released and the 606.

Both were quite fun. Though I did find that over time they had just enough emphasis and bite in the highs to make some tracks fatiguing. They are more of a finish-the-design-to-satisfy-their-ears company which shows up in the slightly idiosyncratic frequency response in their passives (some zig-zagging in the highs). But they are still a brand that I enjoy listening to.

Congrats.

 

[DSJR]

The Kudos guys are 'my' age give or take and not so long ago, my local audio salon which stocks and sells this brand, claimed proudly that NO measurements are carried out in the design (surely SOME tests need to be done?). In the past with the now discontinued cheaper models it really showed (screaming tweeters and one-note organ-pipe bass in a nice looking dealer-profitable simple floorstander), but the Titans are a step up from this and more chameleon-like - they show the dry 2-D quality of Chord electronics and the still seemingly band limited 'more exciting' sounds of Naim, which has evolved hugely for the better in recent times over the 80's-90's models.

Thing is - and this to PJ. The last set of 808's I heard was with over a hundred grands worth of active electronics/crossovers/supplies and apart from a certain dynamic freedom lacking in many domestic passive systems, they just sounded 'Meh' to me. I mean, for less than a quarter of the total price, one could have a pair of ATC 100ASL SE's at thirty odd grand (that'd appeal to me) with built in electronics, or if space allowed, save more dough and have a set of 150ASL's which sonically 'did the job for me' when heard recently, OR for two thirds the price of the electronics alone - and this would get the ASR spines tingling - the new Genelecs which I guarantee would totally wipe the floor with any Titan set at any price and no matter how fancily driven!!!!!

To me, it just goes to show how far the domestic 'high end' fraternity is from where the real cutting edge in speakers lies and UK dealers at least are falling way behind, still stuck in 1980's ideals from when they were young and foolish @Purité Audio Keith might understand what I'm banging on about?


Isobaric (isobarik) bass is an odd thing. The two drivers apparently have to be very closely matched if distortion isn't to be an issue (this from an experienced speaker designer) and I still don't get the reasoning for it when a single unit properly matched to the cabinet can work at least as well as the often cobbled domestic 'designs.' There seems to be pro's and cons with this method and I don't have the expertise to fully understand now I'm no longer one of the flock (he says, having owned three sets of passive Isobariks in different finishes back in the 80's)...

 

[DSJR]

Kudos Titan 808 loudspeaker is quite reputable.
View attachment 289369

All this nonsense as regards bass loading and that (passive?) pair STILL need a pair of huge subs to bolster the bottom octave? Best not say more

 

[Purité Audio]

The Kudos guys are 'my' age give or take and not so long ago, my local audio salon which stocks and sells this brand, claimed proudly that NO measurements are carried out in the design (surely SOME tests need to be done?). In the past with the now discontinued cheaper models it really showed (screaming tweeters and one-note organ-pipe bass in a nice looking dealer-profitable simple floorstander), but the Titans are a step up from this and more chameleon-like - they show the dry 2-D quality of Chord electronics and the still seemingly band limited 'more exciting' sounds of Naim, which has evolved hugely for the better in recent times over the 80's-90's models.

Thing is - and this to PJ. The last set of 808's I heard was with over a hundred grands worth of active electronics/crossovers/supplies and apart from a certain dynamic freedom lacking in many domestic passive systems, they just sounded 'Meh' to me. I mean, for less than a quarter of the total price, one could have a pair of ATC 100ASL SE's at thirty odd grand (that'd appeal to me) with built in electronics, or if space allowed, save more dough and have a set of 150ASL's which sonically 'did the job for me' when heard recently, OR for two thirds the price of the electronics alone - and this would get the ASR spines tingling - the new Genelecs which I guarantee would totally wipe the floor with any Titan set at any price and no matter how fancily driven!!!!!

To me, it just goes to show how far the domestic 'high end' fraternity is from where the real cutting edge in speakers lies and UK dealers at least are falling way behind, still stuck in 1980's ideals from when they were young and foolish @Purité Audio Keith might understand what I'm banging on about?


Isobaric (isobarik) bass is an odd thing. The two drivers apparently have to be very closely matched if distortion isn't to be an issue (this from an experienced speaker designer) and I still don't get the reasoning for it when a single unit properly matched to the cabinet can work at least as well as the often cobbled domestic 'designs.' There seems to be pro's and cons with this method and I don't have the expertise to fully understand now I'm no longer one of the flock (he says, having owned three sets of passive Isobariks in different finishes back in the 80's)...

‘No measurements taken’, what a truly peculiar boast, but I imagine that is quite true of many ‘audiophile’ brands, who needs microphones when you have the designers ears.
Keith

 

[DSJR]

I seem to recall that they were mentioning an Exposure based active Titan system, half the price or less than a tricked out Naim based one, but I doubt I'll ever see let alone hear one now and in any case, too many Naim owners hard on the upgrade ladder and loads of money to lose if they changed to something else.

I do agree however, that once a good solid technical design is done, that final fine-tuning should be done by ear. I maintain that crossover points/frequencies with a given set of drivers may well be tunable by experienced hearing (while noting dispersion patterns with these changes and so on), but you've GOT to have a solid design first!

I like the comment a few posts ago about Naim dealers only stocking certain brands of loudspeakers. I'd politely suggest that Focal apart, it's more to do with sheep or tribal mentality than anything else these days and customers who are also part of the 'flock' get to know these speaker brands and kind-of expect them. Thank Gawd in the bad old days 'we' also had a solid clientele for Rogers speakers and Quad amps, the latter brand getting better and more 'universal' with each generation

 

[fpitas]

All this nonsense as regards bass loading and that (passive?) pair STILL need a pair of huge subs to bolster the bottom octave? Best not say more

I think you misunderstood. "Reputable" in that sense means, "pointlessly expensive".

 

[DSJR]

I think you misunderstood. "Reputable" in that sense means, "pointlessly expensive".

I still don't quite get in measurement terms the way a bass speaker system can be damped to subjectively improve things (less boom) while maintaining extension to the bottom octaves. Ported bass cabs have certain compromises I know, especially if the ports are used to 'extend' the bass response in smaller boxes (and we regularly see the issues with ports in very small speakers in the Klippel suite of tests often going into the upper midrange).

 

[fpitas]

I still don't quite get in measurement terms the way a bass speaker system can be damped to subjectively improve things (less boom) while maintaining extension to the bottom octaves. Ported bass cabs have certain compromises I know, especially if the ports are used to 'extend' the bass response in smaller boxes (and we regularly see the issues with ports in very small speakers in the Klippel suite of tests often going into the upper midrange).

I've designed ported to minimize group delay, and that does help with the typical complaints like one-note boomy bass. But yes, that entails a gently sloping high-pass response at the lower extreme. With room gain accounted for, that may not be a bad thing.

 

[Purité Audio]

I still don't quite get in measurement terms the way a bass speaker system can be damped to subjectively improve things (less boom) while maintaining extension to the bottom octaves. Ported bass cabs have certain compromises I know, especially if the ports are used to 'extend' the bass response in smaller boxes (and we regularly see the issues with ports in very small speakers in the Klippel suite of tests often going into the upper midrange).

Boom is the speaker interacting with the physical dimensions of the room, although I have not doubt there are some loudspeakers who have audibly resonant enclosures.
Keith

 

[DSJR]

Boom is the speaker interacting with the physical dimensions of the room, although I have not doubt there are some loudspeakers who have audibly resonant enclosures.
Keith

I'd add under-damped drivers too, said cones wobbling around when the signal's removed, the passive crossover possibly getting in the way and preventing the amp from 'seeing' the driver properly. The KEF B139's used in old large IMF's had no back loading at all and that and the transmission line, made for seasickness when wide band vinyl sources were used. Later examples had extra 'stuff' in the line which still kept good extension, but the 'muck' lower down was better controlled if not removed altogether by a switch on the crossover panel. 'Course, the speakers you sell won't exhibit this I'm certain

 

[Koeitje]

Reputable for clean and clear sound.

So...too much treble?

 

[fishergod]

So...too much treble?

Yes and balanced bass.

 

[Koeitje]

Yes and balanced bass.

Oh, the true showroom V shape signature?

 

[fishergod]

Oh, the true showroom V shape signature?

Yes, correct.

 

[Bach]

Thanks
It's weird no one else is using it in audio

It would be weird if everyone else would use it.